Since H got back, he is still confused, still wants to be with the OO, doesn't want to lose me. Tells me that he doesn't want a life with the OO if it means losing me (like he could have both?!) but I'm certain that the OO is hearing something entirely different.
I need some advice about this holiday weekend. My birthday is on the 5th. This holiday and my birthday have always been a long weekend for both of us. We go to the patriotic concerts, out for fireworks, BBQ for my birthday and whatnot. It's always been big because the whole country is celebrating.
When H got back from Florida, I told him essentially that I am moving on with the process of my life, but that the door is open behind me. Once he decides to break it off with the OO, he can catch up with me if it's not too late. But, I've been pretty strict about there being no "relationship" with me while he is still seeing the OO.
Now he wants to take me to the concert for my birthday. I don't know what to do. I would really like to spend my birthday with him, doing the things that we always do. But, he's still seeing the OO. And, he was in Florida on his birthday and I want a little bit of payback. But, if we never have any fun together, then why on earth would he come back to me? But, I told him either me or the OO ... not both at the same time.
Don't know what to do ... anyone still out there on this long weekend?
my thoughts are certainly not professional. Just very real to my heart as I have had the same struggles. when does the ultimatum really stand? You are right, if you never have fun, you will never be able to compete with a vacation in FL. He is just not ready to decide and is still discovering what he wants. Right now he ways he wants to take you to the concert. that is a good sign. You will have to decide what you cn or cannot do. there are things you will and will not do, but there are also things you can and cannot do. If you cannot go to the concert then tell him your hurt feelings that you would like to go but you just cannot due to his choices. If you can go then again tell him your mixed emotions about this. Tell him you really want to go but feel so uncomfortable with this dual relationship. Ask him what you think you should do. that might be a great insight to see what he is thinking. Men also like to solve problems. keep listening to your heart and know that just because you go to the concert does not mean you accept the A or are willing to back down on other things. Just an opinion. proably not right, but my thoughts
If you wanna go to the concert with you H, then go. Why cut off your ear to spite your face. Getting payback for him not spending his b-day with you is not going to make you feel any better nor is getting even going to repair your M.
I get the impression that you haven't seen your H since he went to Florida. Your H is bound to be feeling guilty and confused right now. If it is what you want, spend the time with your H and have a good time. That means no R talk.
Quote: But, if we never have any fun together, then why on earth would he come back to me?
I think this hits the nail on the head.
Also, as I remember your H thinks you are controlling. I know I have this same problem with my H. At some point we need to let go and stop being the responsible one all the time. For a long time I was a little bitter towards my H because while he was out spending money I had to be the one to cut back to ensure that bills were paid. But our Hs don't want a mommy they want a wife. Sometimes you just have to let things go and have fun.
... and hates being away from me, then why on earth isn't he here?
Unlike so many of the people on this board, I have almost no end of positive communication from H ... he calls, IMs, texts ... full of ILYs and IMYs and 'good night' and 'good morning' and always sounding sad about not being with me. We had a really great time over much of last week ... went to the concert and saw the fireworks, went out another night to dinner and drive-in movie, had dinner by the pool at the place where he is "house-sitting" on another day, church on Sunday followed by lunch. All of this instigated by him.
So why is he still gone? I asked him that last night ...
Quote: H: I'm afraid of success followed by failure. Me: What does that mean? H: I'm afraid we'll end up in the same place again in the future.
So ... loads of positives, he loves me, he can see that I am making progress on myself and on some of the issues that I brought to the marriage ... but he's afraid of "success followed by failure." This is much the same thing that I have been hearing for four months ... since even before he moved out.
I don't know what to do or not do to try to break through this stalemate.
-- Kacee
P.S. I think he's still in contact with the OO, but they can't be spending much time together, seeing as how we have seen each other sooo much and H is still working two jobs. The OO will fade away ... that is something that I cannot control and will not worry about ... I will just wait the OO out.
There must be some sort of WAS quote book. My H too says he loves me and misses me yet won't come home for the same reason.
Unfortunately, I think he is right to be afraid of our M failing again. I wouldn't want us to fall back in love and have a honeymoon period and then fall back into old patterns because we rushed into things. Of course that doesn't mean I don't hate the slow pace of things and miss my H terribly.
In one of my master's classes (education) I was reading a chapter and the author, Marzano was essentially talking about how people behave when learning.
There was a sentence that has stuck with me as an "Ah Ha!!" sentence.
He said that there are two kinds of people. You are either success oriented or failure avoidant .
He went on to explain that success oriented people either work to be successful- that is what drives them; not only the success in the final product bt also the road there. They get their "high" from the striving toward success. THey don't worry much about failure because they know it's just a step in the road and something to work from.
Failure avoidant people have the different perspective. The drive in them is to work toward goals so they don't fail. They aren't focused on the success aspect- most times they don't even worry about not succeeding, they just don't want to fail. They will either avoid situations and work (Passing on experiences and projects) so they don't have the chance to fail, or they will do just enough to get by without failing.
I'm very obviously success oriented, and after reading that, my H is very definetly failure avoidant. He will do just enough to keep from "upseting me" in his words, he won't do things that I want, he has a totally different outlook on most things than I do. I was raised to voice my opinion, to strive for change where I see the need, to make a difference. His opinion is there's not much you can do, so why bother getting worked up over it.
I can't change him, but I think seeing him in this light helps me to not push him so much toward what I consider success.
More accurately ... how can I prevent his horrible self-definition from letting him continue this? He says, in essence, that he has been so unfair and disrespectful to me and everyone else and that he is such a complete screw-up that he will never be any different so he can do the "best" thing for me by leaving me.
Update on events ...
H and I just came back from a couple of nights away in Chicago. There was a fair amount of drama before he left with me ... He told me two weeks ago that he would go with me (this was a mini-business trip for me). Throughout Thursday, I started hearing that he had too much to do at work to take a day off, he needed to call his boss (who is traveling in Europe) and had to be at the office to do that, he had to help a friend hang a ceiling fan, etc. and I could see the set-up coming for him backing out because there was too much to do. I told him fairly early Thursday morning that I was leaving at 5 and he could be there or not.
He was here ... and saying that now he thought he should drive up on Friday and meet me and then we could both drive home on Saturday. I said no deal ... either go with me or don't, but quit playing games.
Well ... he went with me. And, it turns out that he never told the OO that he was going away with me, just that he would be too busy to get together for a couple of days. So, the OO called *my* cell phone to ask to talk to H on Thursday night and then promptly hung up when I said "sure" and handed the phone over. Whatever ... you would think that the OO was 12 instead of 42.
Also turns out that the OO's birthday is tomorrow, so H was concerned about getting back from Chicago in time today for the birthday party.
Also turns out that H would be "in trouble" for going away with me for an overnight stay. H still has not told the OO that he was with me for two nights. [How is it that I can feel even remotely bad for the OO being lied too?]
H says he loves me, says he wants to be with me, says he doesn't want a life with the OO if it means not being with me. Then says that he is afraid "to put in the effort to heal ourselves and each other" and have it all fall apart again. He (helped by the OO and the OO's friends and a number of other people) has filled his head with the idea that it would be best for me - and fairest for me - and the least hurtful to me - for him to just walk away and let me get on with my life. Like he thinks that he has screwed up too much to ever recover our relationship, so why bother trying? But then he says that of course it's worth it ...
I know that I can't control him, or change his mind about what he's doing ... but he seems to have a blind spot and deaf ear to hearing me. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can "make him see" that the only right thing to do in this situation is to work with me to work through some of our issues, even if all he is in it for is to provide "closure"? He has it in his head that it is "right" to "allow me to move on" and "let me cut my losses."
And ... I know that I can't really "make him see" anything. But I want to ...
I guess what I need is for Dr. Phil to tell him that he hasn't earned his way out of this marriage yet and that he has more work to do before he can leave.
-- Kacee
P.S. Chicago was a combination of a whole lot of fun and some really intense conversations ... glad he went with me, but I hate feeling like *I'm* the OO.
I guess what I am really struggling with is how I stay on the sidelines while he continues this affair and while it keeps getting more intense. I feel like there is a cliff's edge coming up and he is heading straight for it if I don't keep him here. Like if I let him go and back off like I'm supposed to that he will just fall even that much harder for the OO. I'm afraid that he will forget that he loves me so much, and that he will stop thinking that what he's doing isn't right and will talk himself into believing fully that he is doing the right thing by leaving me. How do I sit here, while they are out to celebrate a birthday dinner, and not be broken hearted when he cried because he didn't want to leave me this afternoon but is now having what he told a friend he expected to be a "joyful" evening? How do I be patient and wait when it only seems like he is moving further from me with every day? How do I trust in anything that he won't move too far away? It seems like he is still at a point where he has a small window into "reality" and could choose to end it with the OO. I don't want to wait through a two-year affair for this to fizzle out. I want him to stop now, he seems to still want to, if only a tiny bit.
H asked me while in Chicago what I would say about H to "scare" the OO off. I said I would say that I'm not going anywhere. He said, no, what would you say about me? I told him that there isn't anything about him that would scare anyone off, not that I could truthfully say anyway. But, I was fairly confident that my determination to stand would scare the OO off. And now, I really want to go to where they are right now and just tell the OO that ... I'm not going anywhere.
You don't have to tell OO anything, OO knows he has been lying once that call was made to you. Every day that you are there is causing the OO more and more doubt about your H.
Another thing, don't let H give you the excuse that he is doing this or that because it is the best thing for you. Tell H that you are perfectly capable of deciding what is or isn't good for you.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
