How do I behave around my cheating husband?

[MonicaP]

Im at a loss. It's been 7 months since H and I separated as the result of his (ongoing) A - I've really started to GAL but just can't find a consistent way to behave around him. Because he comes to my place to visit our S3.5 about 3-4x/wk I am forced to see him often. In fact, during the week I typically prepare dinner for all 3 of us and we eat together. Afterward I try to find something to do to get out of their way (give them a chance to play) and do something for myself. But it's during the dinners, and interactions around our S (story time, bed time, etc) that I find myself jumping all over place emotionally. Something might trigger a memory, for example, reading stories to our S and hearing my H's voice so much - I think, wow, I rarely hear his voice anymore and now Ow does! I've always loved his voice and now it's just painful to hear. Another example of where I get confused about how to interact with him is....oftentimes H will stick around talking to me while I'm doing the dishes after dinner. Instead of following our S to play, H will stay and try to make some sort of conversation. Last week H made it a point to bring up the fact that he had had dinner with an old friend (someone I know and like). He went on to tell me in detail how friend and his wife are having marital problems again. I responded with some compassion, but tried to keep the spotlight on friends, although we might as well have been talking about us. I thought it was interesting that H was discussing this with me. Another example of what confuses me is that my H goes out of his way (without me prying) to tell me - for example - why he's wearing shorts/t-shirt "coming from work". I never asked but he found a way to explain how the AC had broken down at work and he stopped home to change. Another ex: H asked me upon arrival if I needed the garbage taken out - I said yeah - (the dumpster is 100 yards away) and 10 min's later he comes back complaining about what a mess it was around the dumpster, but in fact I had just been there with some recycling and it was perfectly fine Obviously (to me) he went to c Ow on cell phone (something he pulled when we were still living together). Then, another ex; I walked into the kitchen unexpectedly and he quickly flipped his cell phone shut. I rolled my eyes and he said "I had a work call". I said "fine, then why did you shut it off so quickly?" and he just said he knew it bothered me. Ugh. I just don't know how to react/respond when I KNOW he is lying outright. Does he honestly believe that I believe his excuses? I've tried to take the position that whatever he does now is none of my business - except when it comes to our S and mutual finances. I just don't know why he continues to feel the need to BS me when I already know about the Ow and know what he says he feels for her. Why doesn't he just own up to it? I suppose it's the guilt, it's pathetic. The last weird thing that happened this week was that he returned our/my massager after borrowing it months ago. I never asked him about it and frankly didn't want it back because I knew he used it w/ Ow. How disgusting!!! Ow was in a serious accident (hit by a car while walking) around the holidays and H has taken it upon himself to be her "Florence Nightengale". SO, when he showed up one night complaining of a back ache and asked to borrow the massager, I was so hurt. We received it as a gift and used it together over the years. How could he be so callous as to use something we used (of an intimate nature) with Ow? Ok, I know I'm not the only one dealing with an "alien" H in full-blown MLC. MY H though is 28 yrs old - so I guess he's in the quarter life crisis. Anyway, we're in somewhat of a state of limbo at the moment. I recently fired our MC who was AWFUL. She made remarks recently like (referring to H affair) "you know, sometimes these things just happen" and (referring to my request that H not expose S3.5 to Ow for 6 more months) "that's your issue, I don't think it would be injurious to your son - he wouldn't know the difference anyway"!!! Well, that was last week and H actually suggested that we continue once/month, and agreed that we could find someone else. He continues to develop R w/ Ow, believes he's in love, has gotten heavily into the Goth sub-culture, and says he's "resigned to dissolving our marriage". Ok, so, how do i relate to him now? I don't feel like being friendly to someone who has betrayed me so terribly, yet I don't want to be a b#@& to him either (take my anger out on him, etc) for my sake and definitely for our S's sake. I just feel so awkward making small talk with him now. And on the other hand, i wonder if these little exchanges will help him/us get back on the same path. Any advice out there???

[grasshopper]

Monica,

Sorry to see you here.

First off, I think all of what you are feeling is natural, and all of what he's doing is too. He DOES sound like a MLCer but also, and maybe more accurately, he is someone who changes himself for the person he's with. You said he's gotten into the goth culture since being with OW, who I assume is also into that, and was first. He's just molding himself into something she wants, but that MAY work in your favor if eventually he realizes that it's not really him.

As for you, what are you doing to make yourself better? Do you understand detachment and the need for it, especially in a case like yours where the affair continues and you have chosen to accept that? IF you accept that as the status-quo (which I did too, so it's not a judgment, at least from me), then you owe it to yourself to learn to detach. You CANNOT dwell, or even react to his little comments, cell phone closings or long walks to the dumpster...btw, he takes a walk to the dumpster to talk to her...tells you something, lol.

Anyway, you need to first of all, accept that this A is still going on, AND that H is for some reason (I suspect because like most WAS, he's a bit confused) still trying to keep tabs on you, make excuses for his actions as if he really cares, and make small talk.

I suggest that participating in this is ALL up to you. If it hurts you too much to have him over so much, arrange for him to take S3.5 out instead of seeing him in the house, or arrange to be gone when he visits.

If you decide not to do this, and continue to see him, do it without expectation or attachment. Fully understand what he is doing and what YOU are doing too. He is cheating and confused, you are a LBS with an obligation to heal yourself and move forward (notice, I didn't say AWAY) in your OWN life.

I don't feel like being friendly to someone who has betrayed me so terribly, yet I don't want to be a b#@& to him either (take my anger out on him, etc) for my sake and definitely for our S's sake.

Ok, so don't...or DO, but do it differently. There IS a middle ground between friendly and b!tch. Find that place. Be cordial, but don't go out of your way to stick around after that. Tell him you are uncomfortable and that feeling that way is making you angry all over again, something you don't want to do.

OR, learn to detach, which will allow YOU to remain friendly if you want to AND feel a lot less pain from these exchanges. Once you take away his power to affect you so much, you win...period.

I just feel so awkward making small talk with him now. And on the other hand, i wonder if these little exchanges will help him/us get back on the same path.

Ok, I don't know really what you meant by "the same path". Is that good or bad. I say bad. You don't want to be on any path that you were on in your old marriage. You want a new path, one paved with self-analysis, growth and 180's. If it feels like it used to feel, then it's probably not the right thing. You want it to feel better, different.

Lastly, a couple questions. First, what caused your marriage to crumble other than this affair? Secondly, what changes are you making in your own life to make yourself better?

Please, post more and you will get help.

GH

[MonicaP]

GH,
Thank you for your feedback, it's much appreciated.
I've been posting in Newcomers since about Jan/Feb when I found the DR in the library. Since I don't really have the time to figure out how to attach my thread :-) I'll give you a little background on my sitch...

Me 38
H 28
M 6yrs
S3.5

Bomb dropped Oct-2005, immediately started MC, A continued, kicked H out Nov-12. H claims to have met Ow Sept 5th 2005 and 1 month later was "in love". H's lies were constant in the beginning and have recently seemed to taper off. He claims I am not the same person he fell in love with, he stopped being attracted to me, felt he could never voice his opinion, etc. Takes almost zero verbal responsibility for our marital problems or his A, but obviously feels immense shame and guilt, seems depressed. He's gone from wearing suits and ties, always fashionable and groomed to long, straggly hair and unkempt. I don't suspect drugs/alcohol, but his interest in the Goth world is very, very clear. H has always been interested in "Goth-like" movies, some music, literature, etc. But Ow has definitely allowed him to jump into the whole "scene". I do agree that he is someone who conforms to other's - he does not have any "voice" of his own. BUT...this came all as a shock to me last Oct because H was really good at putting up a front. He never once gave me the impression that he was so seriously unhappy. In fact, about 6 mos prior to bomb he wrote a love letter to me stating how I was the woman for him, etc. To say that he is confused is an understatement.

7 months later...
We have been attending MC for past 4 mos "for the sake of co-parenting". Recently I suggested that we stop MC after he announced unequivocally that he "cannot be in this R anymore", "we're not compatible" and "I have been waiting for you to find a F/T job before bringing up D". He did back-pedal a bit on the money issue in an email the next day, but I still took the whole convo as a "done deal". I think I feel this way because up until that point he had always seemed so ambivalent and would say things like "I don't know what's going to happen" and if I brought up D he would say "well, that's your decision, that's not mine". Etc..

We had our "last" MC appt recently but he suggested we continue once/month. I fired our MC but agreed to find someone new (long story).

We see each other Tues,Th/Fri evenings at my place w/ S3.5. I make dinner and then often find something to do on my own (in or out) until S's bedtime. We read stories together and then H says goodnight and leaves. He lives 30 min's away. Then he comes Sun, all day. I leave in the morning and typically come home for dinner. Again, aft' dinner I find other things to do. But H seems to want to talk to me when I'm doing the dishes or cooking or whatever.

I find that I can make small talk or talk about our S, but if I start to feel uncomfortable I find a "polite" way to leave the room.

What have I been doing for myself? A lot! :-) I feel like I've rediscovered myself in these last several months. My H was right, I wasn't the same woman he married. But there's nothing I can do to change the past, so I'm just making my changes now. I've become more flexible, far less consumed with motherhood (although S3.5 remains a huge priority of course!!), talk to a IC once/week and deal with REAL issues, lost weight, cut my hair, bought some new clothes, go out a lot with friends, have arranged babysitting, and as of today I've found a new job. I read a lot of really good (spritual) books, use this site, and keep in contact with friends. I have definitely GAL.

I'm not in as much (daily) pain over my separation or hurt/rejection over the Ow. The hard times now are when I want to do something that was a "future goal" of ours. For example, this year I wanted to bring our S3.5 to Disneyland - a family tradition. Now I'm planning on going with a friend and her kids. It's sad. I think the grieving process will take a while.

No, I don't want H and I to be on the same path we have already been on!!! I would like us to be walking together again - as husband and wife, as partners, as best friends, as a family! I miss the man I knew and loved, but who he is today is very different and someone I would not want to be with.

I guess what you wrote confirmed what I have already been doing, leaving when i feel uncomfortable, being cordial, etc.

We are supposed to find a financial mediator to help us separate our finances. We still share 1 account and I think I will feel more at peace if I don't have to think about his side of the money.

Well, I guess I went on but needed to vent.

Thanks again for your help.

[MonicaP]

Journaling...

I'm feeling sad today, missing my H, the one I married. This morning at breakfast my S3.5 sat down in "daddy's chair" and said "this isn't daddy's chair anymore". My heart broke.

We might have found a new MC, someone pro-marriage. My H is supposed to talk to her today and then we will make an appt. I wonder if seeing her will make a difference. Our former MC was incompetent.

Summer is hard for me. We always did so many fun things in the Summer - travels, trips to the beach, day trips, etc. This was the year I wanted us to go to Disneyland and now that dream is dashed. A friend invited me and S3.5, but I just don't think I can afford it and think i might end up feeling depressed anyway.

Some days I feel strong, today is not one of them.

Last night H was over to see S3.5 and barely spoke to me. On Sunday he initiated conversation and seemed more engaged. Yesterday he seemed depressed. And if I bring up something that can even remotely be misinterpreted - and I mean remotely! - he will jump on it.

How long am I going to be in this hell

Where did he go? Where did our wonderful life together go? I don't understand why he can't remember the incredible loving moments, days, weeks, months, years we spent being best friends.

But I guess that was all just an illusion. He wasn't really being true, he wasn't being himself. Or at least he says that now. He says, that was 80% him, and the other 20% he was too afraid to show. Guess that's his interest in Goth and that whole "underworld" scene.

I know I'm feeling sorry for myself. Now I have to go pick up S3.5 and will have dinner out with another mom friend and her D4.5.

H will be over tomorrow to see S again. I wonder what mood he'll be in.

Friday, if I can coordinate it, I'm going out with a girlfriend to dinner while H watches S, then babysitter comes (H won't stay late). I can't wait to wear my new black dress!

Bye for now...

[MonicaP]

I am so exhausted from the sadness at times. It's been nearly 8 mos since separation and nearly 10 mos since H started A.

Are they really meant to be? What hope do we have? He's "in love" with Ow.

I've been DB'ing for 6mos or so and feel like it's just becoming more comfortable for H to walk away. He sees me going on with my life and being "happy", so now he's off the hook. He doesn't have to feel guilty anymore. Right?

Today he came by for an hour to watch sick S3.5 so I could get to work. When he arrived he mentioned that the reason he was in jean/t-shirt (coming from work) was that he stopped home to change just in case S got sick on him. I politely nodded. Inside I was already seething "knowing" that he was probably just coming from Ow's house.

After he left he called to ask if I was upset he could only stay for 1 hr. I said no, no, I understand - ya-da, ya-da. But then I said "you know, you don't have to explain to me what you wear, etc..it's none of my business". I told him, unless it relates to our S or finances, he doesn't need to tell me anything. He got angry tone and said "oh, ok, I will only talk about things relating to S and $ then". I tried to explain (in a non-threatening way) that he didn't have to feel the need to explain things to me.

But I also went on to say that I would just rather not know, rather not hear any explanations, because the fact remains that he is w/ Ow. I got a little choked up and said I was doing the best I can to accept that fact and that it was still painful for me.

I also asked him why he wanted to continue on with MC 1/month after I suggested we terminate. He thinks it will help us "stay on track with our communication" and "it's good to have an objective person". I guess I still have hopes that he'll say "you never know, maybe the MC will help us save our marriage". Ha!

No, he's truly gone I'm afraid. And I miss him more and more as I feel him slipping farther and farther away.

Is there anything to the theory - that I am making it comfortable for him to walk away?

Can anyone out there relate?

[MonicaP]

S3.5 had fever all day and since the night before last. H called this morning to check in and said he would check in again later. No call.

Saturday's are his 1 full day with Ow. Although we have an agreement that he calls S3.5 on the days he doesn't come over, H never calls on Saturdays. No explanation. Can't he get away from her for 5 min's just to check in!

I'm feeling so sad. I miss him and think we'll never have a chance to save our marriage and, more importantly, to have a stronger marriage. We were so devoted to each other and so grateful to have found each other - and now, poof! It was all a lie.

I just don't know where to go from here. Is this all I can do - detach? Just let him be and hope he comes to his senses? Sure, I can go on with my life, I've already made huge steps in the right direction - but then what? Meet someone else, pine for H, ignore R altogether, focus on anything but???

This limbo-land is a killer. Yet, am I really in limbo? Hasn't my H made it clear by his actions that he has chosen Ow and just wants to be friends with me??

So, my question is still this - am I making it too comfortable for H to walk away?

I'd love some feedback...

[superstressed]

Monica,

I'm probably not the best person to be giving advice right now, but I can offer understanding.

I don't think it is easy for our Hs to just walk away. If it was, they'd be gone and never look back. Of course that doesn't make things any easier. It probably makes things harder for us--to see them and know they don't want to be part of our lives.

I know just how you feel about wanting to do things with your H during the summer. It makes me sad and angry to think of all the fun things we could be doing together if only my H would get his head out of his a@$.

SuperStressed

[MonicaP]

Thanks for responding Superstressed,

I'm sorry we're both in this boat, but I'm sure glad I'm not alone!

I just finished watching a movie called "The Notebook" about a real love affair, it was such a sweet/sad story. I can't help but remember when my H and I were so much in love.

Once we were having to say goodbye at the airport and we didn't know when we would see each other again (he's from another country)...we just sat in the middle of the airport crying and hugging and staring into each other's eyes. I waited just 6 weeks before I flew to his country and met his family, he returned with me and the rest is history...

I thought we would grow old together...

Instead I am watching him slip farther and farther away from me - into his new life with Ow.

Today our S3.5 asked H if he could go home with him, if "we could have a sleepover"...I think he meant all 3 of us He later asked me "why does daddy go home to his apartment? Why did you decide he wasn't going to live here anymore?"...this from a 3.5 yr old!

My heart is broken. Just when I think I'm so strong, some memory will kick in and topple me again. I miss him so much. I miss our life together. And there's not a damn thing I can do to change the fact that he has decided that I'm not the one for him and Ow is.

Oh, I don't think the Ow is the only thing that's keeping him from remembering our love and life together, it goes deeper than that. He seems quite depressed and rarely do I see him smile or laugh. It's very sad.

Well, I know I'm rambling but I needed to get this out tonight..

[superstressed]

Monica,

Wow. We really are in similar boats. My H is also not from here (he's a Brit) and we too spent a tearful goodbye at the airport very early in our relationship. As soon as he got home he announced to his parents that he wasn't going to get his PhD and came back to the US to be with me a month later.

All the struggle we went through to be together in the beginning makes me feel now that we've worked too hard and our R is just too damn romantic to throw away. I'm sure you feel the same way.

As for the sadness on your H's part, I think depression often throws a M into turmoil. The only thing I can say is my H certainly seems more interested in me the more I find other interests, like my taking an art class. Of course it is so hard to get out of the rut of missing your H. Believe me, I hit bottom hard before I was able to move forward. I've found the best thing for a broken heart is to make yourself very busy with other things.


SuperStresssed

[MonicaP]

Hi Superstressed,

Wow, so you're well aware of the hoops we had to jump through to even be together in the first place. Fortunately we didn't have much pressure from family because everyone knew how much in love we were. In fact, after our civil (legal) ceremony we had 2 more weddings - one in the US and one in Italy. We spent thousands of dollars in INS and legal fees to prove we married for love and we pledged to "love each other forever". When our son came we were totally in love with him and H was completely involved and bonded in every way.

Then "real life" set in I guess. I was a new mom, H was working hard to get ahead, I was depressed about a falling out with my mom and pushed for us to move to H's native country "to be near his family, culture, etc". H agreed and we either stored or sold our belongings and moved with the intention of staying 2 years.

This is when H claims "something broke" between us. He saw me feeling miserable and alone and despite his efforts he couldn't make me happy. He withdrew more and more. After 6 months we agreed to move back to US and start over. H was humiliated by his father who came down very hard on him before we left.

Ok, now H claims he didn't want to move back to his country at that time and blames me for his inability to voice that strongly enough. I've apologized to him for whatever I have done to make him feel he can't talk to me, but beyond that I am no mind-reader and didn't know.

His father is a good man, his parent's have been together 30 + yrs, they've worked hard and made their family their #1 priority. Sadly however, when my H was growing up his F was very strict and H could "never measure up". No matter what he did (was successful in school, stayed out of trouble, etc) it seemed he wasn't "good enough" for his F.

So, my belief is that my H has transferred all of his anger for F onto me. I think he started to fear that our M would somehow end up like his parent's - based in large part on some false sense of honor and duty, rather than on the love we shared. Let's face it, when we had our child our R changed. We didn't make our M #1 anymore and we got complacent.

I am curious, you mentioned your H seems more interested in you as you begin to have other interests...what does he do to demonstrate his interest in you?

I am wondering if I am missing any signals my H might be giving out. He does try to talk to me more often now and seems nicer, but I keep thinking it's because he is feeling less guilty and more sure of R w/ Ow.

He left a mssg tonight for S3.5 has he always does and then mentioned he spoke with new MC about making an appt - says we can see her this Thursday. His tone of voice sounded upbeat.

Well, I'm rambling, I just have so much in my head about this...

Thanks for listening and keeping tabs on me.

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