A couple weeks with your face in the carpet will take the bounce right outta your step!
Sad thing, I look forward to hitting rock bottom, because the holding pattern I am in is painful enough. How's that for a sicko, I'm longing for more pain, just to have movement in my sitch.
Quote: HH, I should say that I recognize that trait because I share it with you. I also think that was a bit too harsh. I just think that sometimes we get SO wrapped up in our "self-improvement" that we forget that not everything we read or do, simply because it's all in the name of "saving our marriage" is either right, or righteous.
Really?!?!?! JK, I know. I am definitely guilty of losing sight of that fact. Thanks.
I think one of the dynamics we miss often in sitchs like yours (all three of you) is one we always tell each other as LBS's, which is that the marriage, if looked at with honest reflection, was NOT good for either of us, it's just the WAS/cheater who DID something about it first.
Our M was not a happy one for a long time. Both of us had unmet needs and we were unsuccessful in communicating those needs and the other S was either unwilling/unable to hear and/or meet those needs.
Quote: As LBS's, we have to learn what WE didn't like about the marriage and then start the hard work it takes to not only mend ourselves and address our personal issues, but all to make sure we don't even go back to that "bad" marriage again.
I am well aware of what MY needs were that were not being met, and I have said from the very beginning of my sitch that I would NOT take THAT M back. We need to make a ton of personal changes for our M to survive and thrive. I have been in the soul searching stage and as you have seen, I get too "pat myself on the back" in my work on me which is neither useful nor productive. I am reflecting on what I did to help along my W's unhappiness in the M. A fertile ground for honest reflection and deep soul searching.
Quote: How does this apply to your sitches?
Sorta. I have know from VERY early in my M that my W wanted a D because she told me often. My true thought is that being a W and a mother cramped her style, or at least what she thought her style was.
Quote: Well, my thought was that in all three of your sitches, it seems like your spouses have taken the bad news and run like hell. I think it's entirely possible that unlike me (or maybe just like me, who knows) your spouses were unhappy before your affair and the revelation of it is their "get out of jail free card".
Have you been talking to my W and getting her to tell you her deepest secrets??
Quote: They may be reluctant to come back not ONLY because of the pain they feel over the betrayal by you, but also because maybe they were looking for a way out, or at the very least, questioning their own happiness in the marriage. Now, with this transgression, they are free to explore their options.
GH, I gotta know, how did you get ahold of my W and get her to tell you what is going on with her? She is definitely looking at my A as a get out of jail free card AND a get out of guilt free card. That works for her now as she explores her options and looks for her happiness in OM. What keeps me hopeful is that I know her and believe she will grow tired of running from her M and from herself. Her true feelings will return. The question is when?
Quote: The good news is that if this is true, and they were unhappy before, then you know that DB, and it's ideas about identifying the problems in your marriage BEFORE the affair, your personal issues, and then working to solve what's solvable by you alone, CAN work in your sitches to improve things.
We both had issues in the M. I suppressed mine until the bomb. What a dummy! I was thoroughly afraid to talk out MY problems with OR because of her regular "I want a D" mantra. As HA said, I didn't want to upset the apple cart any more than it already was.
Quote: You still have to overcome the affair and it's own set of "issues" but maybe if you look past that, as we LBS's have to, to the REAL issues of the marriage, you can find something to work on while he/she comes around.
Even thought it was MY A, I do know that while I pray for her to "get over" my A, I need to work through ALL of my issues that led me to such an awful breach of trust and commitment in my M. I dropped the bomb on myself, my W, and our family.
Quote: Their anger WILL NOT last forever and maybe if some of the underlying issues are addressed in the meantime, and mainly I mean YOUR issues that contaminated the marriage (and God knows THEY did too, so I'm not saying you are 100% to blame) you can make progress.
Thank you for reminding me that my W's anger will not last forever (even thought it feels like it will)and that my job right now is to weed out MY issues and truly determine what I did/did not do that undermined the foundation of my M. I am truly an imperfect human, and I am truly fertile ground for God to "work on" to remind me and to help to make me the man that HE always intended me to be.
A few things happened this week while I was with my children all week. First and foremost, one thing GH said and one thing Amy said came rushing to the forefront of my mind.
First, GH's posted that I (and my W) need to quit trying to be right and just love one another. In looking back, I have been judging my W's path instead of loving her, praying for her, and being patient with her. As you have told me, just because I read it and/or someone said it to me, doesn't make me right or what I am trying to do righteous. Ouch. But I needed to be smacked hard in the nose with a sledgehammer to knock me off of my self-made egotistical pedestal. I need to focus on loving my W no matter what path she is on. I realize my M may not survive, but if it does not, she will leave our M knowing that I love her b/c I showed her 'til the end. THAT I have control over b/c I have complete control over me and what I do. I have gotten sidetracked with anger that was subtle enough that I fooled myself into thinking I wasn't angry but not so subtle that YOU and my W didn't recognize as being an a$$. Thank you for calling it to my attention and calling me on my own ability to lie to myself. Ugh. I am so far from where I need to be and I appreciate your honesty in being willing to tell me what I need to know about myself.
Amy, you have been trying to tell me that I cannot do this by myself. I cannot change myself enough on my own. I cannot heal my W, myself, or my M. To use GH's phrase, I have been too "pat myself on the back." That realization is awful and tonight it all came together like a ton of bricks right on my overinflated head. My dear, you have been my most powerful spiritual guide and I will be forever indebted to you. With time, study, dedication, perseverence and prayer I hope to get from where I am spititually to being much closer to God and much stronger in my beliefs and faith. I often feel so weak in my faith, but I am encouraged by your words about my seeking Him. Thank you.
My decision tonight, is to focus on being happy and NOT worrying about being right in my M. I need to continue being myself. I suck at trying to be someone I am not. I like the person that I have become over the past 4-5 months and I need to focus on being that person. Should my W not like the person that I am now, then I can live with her decision. I won't like it, but I like ME. I can't make her like me. I have faith in God and I believe He will get His message through to my W. The end result, though, is that she does have free will and may choose to continue to dance with the enemy. I know that I do not have the power to heal my W's wounds and I do not have the will to make her hesitate or stop in the path she has started. She is a grown woman. She is a smart woman. She is a Christian woman. I hope and pray she remembers who she is. My job is to act in a manner that SHOWS her that I love and accept her for who she is. I will do that.
Thank you all for reading my posts. You comments and your positive thoughts and prayers for me and my sitch are greatly appreciated. Thank you again. 'Til tomorrow.
Today I went to pick up our children for church, unfortunately they were not up and ready. Anyway, I had already offered to spend time with our children so that my W would have time to clean up the house. We all ended up spending time together in the pool, which was nice.
At one point we all went to get ice cream and then my W washed her car. I don't recall exactly how it happened, but my W said to me, "You really missed me while I was gone, huh?" I responded, "I miss you all the time, whether you are gone or not." She looked a little let down, so I told her, "Yes, honey, you needed an affirmation. I missed you terribly while you were gone." She said quickly, I wasn't looking for an affirmation. I let it go. IMHO she was definitely looking for affirmation that she is loved and missed.
The whole day was nice. No tension. No bickering. Just spending time together. A deposit into my DB account, hopefully. I honestly think my wife is hurting and terribly confused. EVERYONE in my life says she is NOT hurting, and THAT is NOT why she is behaving the way she is. I only know that I am going to err on the side of grace and give her the benefit of the doubt that she is hurting and VERY confused.
All I really feel like I can do is rely on who I have become over the past 4-5 months. I like the man I have become and I continue to grow in positive ways every day. I truly want to leave NO stone unturned in working to mend my M and I will NEVER[/I] quit fighting for my W, my M and my family.
Thanks for listening all. Good night. I have some praying to do tonight.
Is it just me, or was this a real a-hole response?
Quote: "You really missed me while I was gone, huh?" I responded, "I miss you all the time, whether you are gone or not." She looked a little let down, so I told her, "Yes, honey, you needed an affirmation. I missed you terribly while you were gone." She said quickly, I wasn't looking for an affirmation.
HH, I could be WAY off base here, especially since you said the rest of the day went well, but it seems like this was a GREAT opportunity to yes, validate and affirm for her and you took that opportunity to get in a little jab. To me, this seems a bit passive/aggressive. Then you compound it by calling her on the "need for affirmation" which not only sounded "high and mighty" but I dare say it may have seemed as if you were looking down on her for it. I don't know how safe it may have made her feel to open up to you like that again if she now thinks she's going to be called out every time she shows any kind of vulnerability.
If I'm right (and I have my doubts at this point) then I don't think it's anything to worry about but maybe just recognize that in those rare moments when she opens up to you, shows you a vulnerable side, i.e. asks for affirmation/validation from you (especially when you KNOW she's doing it as you said you did) I think it would be best to act in the most loving way possible, not take cheap shots.
HH, don't take this the wrong way. I think it's GREAT that you two got to spend some time together, I just want to make sure you maximize the potential "good side" time you get with her. Always put your best foot forward, particularly when you know she's looking for the bad foot.
On the subject of her hurting, well duh! Of course she's hurting in some way. You cannot know the exact nature of her pain, or it's intensity, but it's there. "EVERYONE" in her life is who? GF's? Family? All people with an interest in making her out to seem strong and unaffected? I would think so. She may also very well be projecting an image of an unaffected woman, strong in her conviction that you've done her harm, but that she's "fine." You know she's going through some tough times, whetehr she's admitting it or not, whether they're just angry times, sad times or depressed times, they're "tough" no matter what. Keep that in mind and be ready next time you get the chance to be something other than the man who's causing that pain. There WILL be more of those times ahead as she begins to lose some of her anger and more sadness and confusion sets in.
Quote: Is it just me, or was this a real a-hole response?
Yes, when it's put to me THAT way, I guess it would sound like that. But in re-reading MY post, it did sound like that. Regardless, my "take" on my response is irrelevant. HER take is what matters most.
Quote: ...I could be WAY off base here, especially since you said the rest of the day went well, but it seems like this was a GREAT opportunity to yes, validate and affirm for her and you took that opportunity to get in a little jab. To me, this seems a bit passive/aggressive. Then you compound it by calling her on the "need for affirmation" which not only sounded "high and mighty" but I dare say it may have seemed as if you were looking down on her for it. I don't know how safe it may have made her feel to open up to you like that again if she now thinks she's going to be called out every time she shows any kind of vulnerability.
D*mnit Jiminy, where are you when I need you BEFORE I step on my "manhood" and muck things up in my DB efforts. I WANT her to open up to me, be vulnerable with me and to feel safe again with me. Despite my best efforts, I often trip on my own two feet and do a faceplant in front of my W. Ugh.
Quote: If I'm right (and I have my doubts at this point) then I don't think it's anything to worry about but maybe just recognize that in those rare moments when she opens up to you, shows you a vulnerable side, i.e. asks for affirmation/validation from you (especially when you KNOW she's doing it as you said you did) I think it would be best to act in the most loving way possible, not take cheap shots.
D*mnit, NOW if really feel awful for what I said to her. I didn't give her what a loving husband would have: affirmation, love, understanding and compassion. I will do better next time. I hope you are right, I also hope there is nothing to worry about with regard to my not-so-good response to my W. She and I got along VERY well for the entire rest of the day, but that doesn't change where we ARE!
Quote: ...don't take this the wrong way. I think it's GREAT that you two got to spend some time together, I just want to make sure you maximize the potential "good side" time you get with her. Always put your best foot forward, particularly when you know she's looking for the bad foot.
I know and I WILL. Thank you GH for the needed swift kick to my backside.
Quote: On the subject of her hurting, well duh! Of course she's hurting in some way. You cannot know the exact nature of her pain, or it's intensity, but it's there.
Sadly, I know.
Quote: "EVERYONE" in her life is who? GF's? Family? All people with an interest in making her out to seem strong and unaffected? I would think so. She may also very well be projecting an image of an unaffected woman, strong in her conviction that you've done her harm, but that she's "fine." You know she's going through some tough times, whetehr she's admitting it or not, whether they're just angry times, sad times or depressed times, they're "tough" no matter what.
I didn't scroll up to my previous post, but the EVERYONE I was referring to are the people in MY life who tell me that my W is not hurting. I stand fast and tell everyone that I choose to err on the side of grace with her. I truly did and do believe that the hurt I caused was deeper than anything she has ever felt or thought she could feel. I know that I betrayed and devasted her. The disappointment in me that I caused her was, I am sure, crushing and beyond belief. I also know that she is a proud woman and talked a lot of smack about me in the wake of my bomb. She is really feeling the need to "save face."
Quote: Keep that in mind and be ready next time you get the chance to be something other than the man who's causing that pain. There WILL be more of those times ahead as she begins to lose some of her anger and more sadness and confusion sets in.
I will look forward to those times with great anticipation and I will be ready for those times! I appreciate the beatings you dish out on a semi-regular basis. Thank you. GH
Quote: W- I have forgiven you for having an A. Me- No you haven't. W- Why do you say that? Me- Because you keep bringing it up and lashing out. wife ponders a minute. W- You're right, I haven't forgiven you. I'm still hurting and really pissed off. Me- I know. I am sorry for having hurt you so deeply and so terribly. I hope that soon you'll truly be able to offer your forgiveness.
Ok, so one month ago (when you said this happened) she was able to express her anger and pain verbally, now she is acting on those feelings. The point is that she still has strong feelings, although negative, that are motivating her. They are still feelings primarily about YOU and what YOU did, not really about her and when she REALLY wants. Like most WAS & some LBS's I think she really just wants the pain to go away, and that means you right now. It won't always be that way.
Quote: Ok, so one month ago (when you said this happened) she was able to express her anger and pain verbally, now she is acting on those feelings. The point is that she still has strong feelings, although negative, that are motivating her. They are still feelings primarily about YOU and what YOU did, not really about her and when she REALLY wants. Like most WAS & some LBS's I think she really just wants the pain to go away, and that means you right now. It won't always be that way.
I hope and pray for what you say to become a reality; at least the part about my sitch not always being this way. What is most confusing to me is that she is so confused by her hurt/pain. I get a lot of her allowing me to be near her followed by pushing me away and isolating herself from me. I hope that she does get in touch with her feelings. Perhaps my GAL and moving into my own place this week will allow me to pull back and allow her the needed time and space to process and heal. For now I work to nurture my PMA and keep my head on straight and above water. Thank you, my friend.
