GH Saga...it's all in my head?

[grasshopper]

I already see many of the things I have done to contribute to our trouble M. It is kind of hard to discover these though when she is more concerned with OP and A. I also know what she has done to hurt our M pre A. That is the reason I want the A over is so that we can go forward together and work on those issues.

Ah, and it seems each day brings some new, often simple and obvious revelation about this process. You've just given voice to that which I have felt for a long time but never really managed to articulate.

THIS is the ultimate tragedy of our sitches, one that is often hidden by rage, jealousy, sadness, despair, anger, and hopelessness. It's only when we stop feeling so much of those things, REALLY learn more about ourselves, that we realize that we have SO much more to give to them, and they to us but now it seems too late. Now that we know. Now that we KNOW what we should have known all along, were cursed with no forum to utilize that knowledge.

GH

[PositivelyListening]

Hi GH, Wow you are doing great! And every time I read your thread with an update from seeing your C, I wish I had a C like yours. FrankD has a really good one too, I learn a lot from his C sessions also. I love my C, she is supportive and knows our sitch and my H well, but it is not concrete and action oriented as yours is. What great steps you are taking!

It is amazing to see how as soon as a sitch changes, even slightly, our tendency is to put the focus on something else outside of ourselves, instead of inside to do the work on us. I would much rather focus on the A, my H's behavior, etc. than focus on the central ingredient in my life - ME! Analyzing, fixing, blaming, being "right" - those are supported all around us in the world. Focusing on your own issues with intimacy and passion, your own expectations and how they sabotage your happiness - now those are golden insights and plans for action for you. And the only place where the true rewards will come. Awesome work, GH. We can see this for our spouses so easily, that they are seeking or focusing on something "outside" rather than looking inward when they have an A, yet we resist it for ourselves just as much in our own ways without a little prodding. Nice to recall how much the same we are, even if our "acting out" takes different forms.

As always I learn so much from reading your thread and your posts. I as so grateful for your presence and your insights. A beacon in the dark. A playmate in the daylight Thanks for being here and for your generosity in sharing yourself.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi GH and StevieRay, I just want to comment about the work needed to discover what we didn't like about our M and what didn't work. I know what many of these things are, and have articulated them for myself. And new ones come up sometimes, which is all good, if my H ever wants to work on our M I will have things we need to work on to make it work for me.

Here's where I get stuck though. I would rather have my old M (before the A) than no M. Does that make sense? If H was faithful to our M, I would still rather have him committed and in the M with the possibilitiy of growing together and learning new things (getting un-stuck in some other way) than dealing with our current sitch. No matter how many things I think of about our M that needed tweaking, it just wasn't "that bad" IMHO. So H's step, that it was "that bad" for him that he had an A and is a WAS was such a hard pill to swallow. It has been much easier to accept that my H may be in MLC and out of his skull for a brief period. Because he even admits I was "a great wife". I wasn't perfect. I did nag and worry and argue and get angry, and I have worked A LOT on that these past six months. But if I had really understood H was suffering and unhappy and there was something I could do about it, I would have worked hard to do it. I just wasn't understanding him, I guess. So I am a selfish person. I was "happy enough" as long as H was there. He was my dream come true, and I never lost sight of that, even when temporarily he was withdrawn from me and I was worried. It was temporary to me. Maybe that's why this had to happen. So I could learn to read all the signals I was missing in my little happy M bubble. And H could make sure he wasn't stuck in some forever hell. Oh, I don't like the way I was forced into growing (and what he did), but I am more grateful to H than I can say for the fact that the growing is happening.

[grasshopper]

I wish I had a C like yours. FrankD has a really good one too, I learn a lot from his C sessions also. I love my C, she is supportive and knows our sitch and my H well, but it is not concrete and action oriented as yours is. What great steps you are taking!

Yea, I like her. I think Frank's was a little better in terms of stepping up and really forcing him to DO things, but mine is pretty good at letting me get to my own decisions and helps me understand a lot of the WHY's of my life right now. She is not so much "action" oriented as I am action oriented and ask her for her opinion on things. She DOES suggest things sometimes, but I think she is far more comfortable talking about those childhood issues or relating my past to present problems. She is Imago trained and that has a lot to do with Freudian theories of childhood shaping the rest of our lives. I think C is trained in Imago but she is very open to other ways of approacing things and while not SBT in fact, in spirit, she is doing pretty well.

It is amazing to see how as soon as a sitch changes, even slightly, our tendency is to put the focus on something else outside of ourselves, instead of inside to do the work on us. I would much rather focus on the A, my H's behavior, etc. than focus on the central ingredient in my life - ME!

Ain't that the truth. I think many of us get hung up on thinking that by turning our back so-to-speak on the affair and instead concentrating on ourselves, that we are somehow condoning their actions or taking all the blame. No, we are doing neither. We are simply acknowledging that worring about the affair and being consumed by it is not only bad for us as individuals, but also bad for any hope at a future relationship we may have with our WAS. Do we "let" the affairs go on forever? Hell no, but then again, as many of us luckily know, they often don't go on forever, or even close. We don't HAVE to kill the affair, they're suicidal by nature.

Awesome work, GH. We can see this for our spouses so easily, that they are seeking or focusing on something "outside" rather than looking inward when they have an A, yet we resist it for ourselves just as much in our own ways without a little prodding. Nice to recall how much the same we are, even if our "acting out" takes different forms.

I think we do. I think in MANY ways, if we try, we can empathize with our spouses. I like the idea (well, I hate it, but you know what I mean) that both the WAS and LBS eventually come to the same two conclusions, just at very different times, and with somewhat different reactions. First, that the marriage is rotten and second that there needs to be something done about it. The fact is that the WAS just get there first and then, without much of ANY support, or guidence like we have here, they start trying to figure out what to do and then enters Price or Princess Charming to save their lives. Ah ha, they say, NOW we're getting somewhere. Finally...hmmmmm, now how do I tell spouse about this wonderful new part of my life...lol.

Like you say, even when WE find out about this terrible thing they've done, our instinct is not usually to get help or look within to solve the problems, it's to exteralize as much of it as possible, spread the blame far and thin and try to escape the hell we find ourselves in. Some of us kick out our spouses. Some of us leave. Some of us retreat into depression. The fact is that most of us DO NOT DO what we now believe is right, which is to get right with ourselves, get our priorities straight and renew OUR life so that we're full people again. We can't do all that and we supposedly WANT the marriage still, wonder how hard it is for our WAS to do that kind of soul searching when they DON'T want the marriage anymore AND think that their soul is entwined with the OP?

GH

[StevieRay13]

Wow Positively, that is amazing. It is like you just read my mind. Every thing you said is exactly what I think. The only difference is that it sounds like you act just like my W.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi StevieRay, I am not sure what you mean... I hope it means you just love me

[StevieRay13]

I was just surprised that when you described your M and said that you thought it just needed tweaking and wasn't that bad, that sounded just like me talking (in the past) to my W. It was exactly what I use to say to her. The only thing was even before the A, she never nagged or complained about things being bad.

[grasshopper]

PL,

Oops, I forgot to reply to this one...my bad.

I would rather have my old M (before the A) than no M. Does that make sense? If H was faithful to our M, I would still rather have him committed and in the M with the possibility of growing together and learning new things (getting un-stuck in some other way) than dealing with our current sitch.

Hmmm. Are you saying that you WOULD take back all that has happened? If so, then, at least for me, I disagree. I would not take this entire thing back because without it, I would not be making the changes I need to make in my life, for me OR my marriage. Would I rather not have had my W cheat on me, sure, but to give her credit, she really DID try to tell me how unhappy she was, and even how I could address that, or how I more specifically could address things about myself that had changed so much over the years. She really did try, and her pleas fell on deaf ears. It was only after the loud boom of the bombs falling that I managed to hear anything at all.

Now, if you are saying that you would rather GO BACK to the way the old M was, even if it meant repeating SOME of the same old mistakes that drove H and you apart, you would welcome that over no M at all, then I agree somewhat. I think that goes in line with saying that no matter how much we feel like the "old" M is back once we begin to reconcile, it will NEVER be the old M again simply because we are not the old partners we once were...and neither are they for better or worse.

Because he even admits I was "a great wife". I wasn't perfect. I did nag and worry and argue and get angry, and I have worked A LOT on that these past six months. But if I had really understood H was suffering and unhappy and there was something I could do about it, I would have worked hard to do it. I just wasn't understanding him, I guess. So I am a selfish person. I was "happy enough" as long as H was there. He was my dream come true, and I never lost sight of that, even when temporarily he was withdrawn from me and I was worried. It was temporary to me. Maybe that's why this had to happen. So I could learn to read all the signals I was missing in my little happy M bubble. And H could make sure he wasn't stuck in some forever hell. Oh, I don't like the way I was forced into growing (and what he did), but I am more grateful to H than I can say for the fact that the growing is happening.

Ok, so here, you seem to be saying that "no" you would not take back what happened but that you are now "grown" to the point where you could resist making those same mistakes again. Alas, it's that paradox mentioned earlier about how we finally know what we need to know and it's not useful in our current sitches...someday maybe, someday.

GH

[grasshopper]

Hey all. Not much to report here. Today's W's birthday and it went pretty well. NOTHING on the R front to report. I am going to be out for most of tomorrow and will return on Wednesday to catch up on ya'll.

Hope everyone has a happy (um...well, you know) and safe 4th.

GH