Good for you! I thought so. Knowing you, he/she (dunno if you said what you're having) is going to pop out, turn to you and demand his/her own space to become an independent being, free from the usual over-enmeshed state that usually exists between poorly differentiated mothers and babies...LOL
I wish you all the luck in the world, health and happiness to you and your H. You deserve it!!!!
You, kind sir, are someone I emulate in my M saving efforts. I envy and applaud your progress and your ability to give while still in the throes of your own sitch.
You are my light house in my stormy marital seas, despite your objections to being referred to as such. When I am wayward, and coming dangerously close to the rocks, your light gently warns me away and encourages me to try again on a safer route.
I can never thank you enough. YOUR PMA infuses mine.
Thank you. I still feel a little uncomfortable with all that adoration, but I appreciate the sentiment. (no, not THAT ).
As I always say, I got SO much help from many people early on, and now, in my sitch, that I owe it to anyone I can help to do so. Also, it's a great way for me to learn more about my sitch and life through the examination of other people's sitches. I figure if I can learn what other's are doing right and "wrong" then maybe I can learn more about what I am doing right and wrong. To me, that's one of the best things about this board. We are all in such similar sitches that it's hard not to learn from each other.
Quote: Thank you. I still feel a little uncomfortable with all that adoration, but I appreciate the sentiment.
Too bad. You've earned it.
Quote: As I always say, I got SO much help from many people early on, and now, in my sitch, that I owe it to anyone I can help to do so.
Thank you for being so generous with your experience, perspective and time.
Quote: Also, it's a great way for me to learn more about my sitch and life through the examination of other people's sitches. I figure if I can learn what other's are doing right and "wrong" then maybe I can learn more about what I am doing right and wrong. To me, that's one of the best things about this board. We are all in such similar sitches that it's hard not to learn from each other.
Here, here. I look forward to the day when my sitch is closer in details and results to yours. I will be her as you are.
I see that a lot of people are once again questioning whether this whole DB thing works. The simple answer is YES, it works...if you make it work.
Let me ask you this. How many people have you seen on these boards REALLY apply DB to their sitches? And of those "good DBers" how many have made REAL progress in their sitches, to the point where they may just have a chance?
Now, how many people here fail, for whatever reason, to apply DB fully and struggle? How many people just can't really do it? Of those people who struggle with DB, how many of them are not making progress?
I don't ask these as rhetorical questions. Really, answer them for yourself.
DB is REALLY freaking hard, just like any technique that requires you to take responsibility for things that you've been happy to put off on someone else. DB asks us to pull ourselves out of our funk and take REAL control over our lives, something that is really hard for most of us to do, especially ME.
I never wanted to be in control over my own life. I always thought things were MUCH better when my W did that. SHE was the only thing that made me happy (and I actually told her so on many occasion). SHE made my life worth living (I actually told her life was not worth much without her). How pathetic is that? Maybe in the romantic world of being "in love" that my W seems to value so much, that's NOT pathetic, but in terms of the marriage she came to hate, it IS.
I just want to say that while all of you are fighting, some of you mistake fighting for progress. Progress is all about making changes and rejecting that which does not work. Progress in our sitches is 100% personal and only after that is embraced can it be any % about the relationship we are all so desperate to save.
I hope I haven't pissed anyone off, but I do hope I have made you think for a minute...have I really done all I can to save my marriage? Have I really applied the principals I read about in DB and elsewhere? If I don't understand what I am supposed to do after trying to do it and maybe falling short, do I ask more questions? Do I have faith in myself to do what I need to do?
I'm sorry to be so frustrated today but I see people giving up, and they THINK they're giving up on their marriages and spouses when they are really giving up on themselves.
You're all to good for that. ALL OF YOU. I know it feels right sometimes, but it's not. Don't ever accept failure when it comes to your power to change your life.
I believe in you, probably more than I believe in myself...that's a work in progress.
GH, if I may ask, what inspired you to write that last post?
Ok, move over a bit so I can get on the soapbox with you. I do have to say that I agree with you. This is not a time to throw in the towel although at times that is exactly what you might feel like doing. This is a time for growing as a mature adult, learning about yourself, your feelings, your needs and desires as well as your spouses. Seeing yourself through your spouses eyes. It is a wake up call. Stop taking life for granted! Learn compassion, empathy and true unconditional love.
Quote: I never wanted to be in control over my own life. I always thought things were MUCH better when my W did that. SHE was the only thing that made me happy (and I actually told her so on many occasion). SHE made my life worth living (I actually told her life was not worth much without her). How pathetic is that? Maybe in the romantic world of being "in love" that my W seems to value so much, that's NOT pathetic, but in terms of the marriage she came to hate, it IS.
Unfortunately, I too relied on my happiness to come from my H. That is too much of a burden to put on someone. You have to be happy with yourself first and foremost before you can be happy with someone else.
Ok, Muddle said something that got to me. He said that we spend too much time focusing on problems...well, I want to do that one last time for today and then move on to happy-land...
So Muddle, and others, got me thinking about what I REALLY know about my W's state of mind, actions and feelings throughout our marriage. So here goes, a bit of a timeline of my W's feelings as I know them...Let's see what I find out in this exercise...
-From day one W has said she does not believe a woman should be the one to initiate intimacy or sex (which led to tension because I don't believe men should do it all the time). -She never really liked the fact that I was not a social creature. She LOVED groups of people, I hated them. -Later in our marriage, she would gripe that I was not as "cool" as I once was when I was a fashion photographer and that I had lost some of my edge. Early on it was a different story as her increasing jealousy (lots of model friends in those days) basically forced me to make a decision between that lifestyle and her. I did, and never looked back...I guess she did. -W has said on more than one occasion (always when she's had a bit too much to drink) and over the past, say, 6 years or so, that we're really good friends but NOT good lovers. -Increasingly she didn't want to do much out of the house. She said it was better to stay in. I attributed that to my bad moods when we would go out. -She threw herself into motherhood but then would complain about being stuck at home. She refused to used child care but hated being a full time mom sometimes. Often I would somehow get the blame for this...or did I just FEEL blamed for it? -W has always had a body image problem, and no matter what I say, how I compliment her, she never accepts it. She ALWAYS rejects my attempts to tell her how beautiful and sexy she is. -She often would reject me in sexual situations and after awhile I just stopped trying as hard. -Intimacy died between us VERY early on outside the bedroom. We hardly, if ever kissed beyond the first year or two of marriage, and even in the bedroom, long periods of time would pass between kissing. -She always said I was defensive and over the years said she just stopped talking to me about "serious" things like how she felt or our R because when she did, I'd just get angry and it would turn into a fight. -She felt I was always too angry with the kids. She said it got to the point where she didn't even want to go out as a family because she knew I'd end up yelling and embarassing her in public.
Those were ALL things that were BIG issues at some, or ALL points in our marriage. Those ALL, at one point or another were subjects of a fight or seven, and I would suspect that they were also things she TRIED to talk to me about but I had NO clue how to listen.
When I read that, I wonder how we made it as far as we did. I can see that while I am not to blame for all that in ANY way, I was part of the problem in most of the things I see as "issues" that she had.
I don't really know why I decided to post this, and even so, it's woefully incomplete, but I think I just wanted to renew my perspective on things as lately I have become increasingly obsessed with my "right" to be happy, and be happy NOW. Impatience is the killer of many a sitch and I suppose I just wanted to remind myself that it's VERY likely that my W suffered through MANY YEARS of discomfort and unhappy nights before realizing that she needed to DO something about it. I want to DO something about it too, but I want that something to save my marriage, not destroy it.
GH
P.S. I do actually have some journaling to do but...
Quote: GH, if I may ask, what inspired you to write that last post?
Some of shippd's posts over the past day or so, and my own general feeling reading some of the threads here. It's not an isolated feeling, sadly. I feel these sentiments coming from a lot of people.
What I hate is that somehow my sitch, or yours seems any better than anyone else's', or that WE seem better. They, and we are not. The only difference is that rather than focusing on the limbo, or what we don't have YET, we choose to TRY to focus on what we do have and continue our progress.
Quote: Unfortunately, I too relied on my happiness to come from my H. That is too much of a burden to put on someone. You have to be happy with yourself first and foremost before you can be happy with someone else.
Yep. I did this, and find that despite it all, I STILL do. It's sad really. I am trying SO hard to break this cycle but every time I get "comfortable" I fall back into this. It's the trap waiting there for us all. Resist it!
Quote: W has said on more than one occasion (always when she's had a bit too much to drink) and over the past, say, 6 years or so, that we're really good friends but NOT good lovers.
My H has recently said the same thing to me. THAT in itself really hurts and this I believe is the reason that we have not been intimate in a long time. Now how do we get over this rejection and show our spouses that we really can be good lovers?
Quote: Now how do we get over this rejection and show our spouses that we really can be good lovers?
I think PM has a lot to say about this...you read it right? I think we get past it by first accepting it ourselves. I KNOW I am a good technical lover, i.e. I have some "skills", lol, but it's the rest of the package, the "intimacy", the ability to open up and not fear rejection so much, that's missing in me. I still, to this day, have a TERRIBLE, paralyzing fear of rejection. I am forcing myself to get over that, but it's hard as hell.
To answer your question directly, I don't know if they every will understand that we can be that for them. I suppose it's possible that to THEM, we may never be, but I cannot concern myself with that possibility right now. I have too much work to do.
(no, not THAT