W didn't get me a card for Father's Day. I even asked her and she said "Was I supposed to?" She DID get me gifts and a card from the boys but that was crap, what she asked. This from a woman who gets cards for EVERYONE for EVERYTHING. We even had to run out at almost closing time to get my BIL a Father's Day card. Oh well. Guess we're not as far along as I thought.
Again, may not sound like a big deal, but I assure you it is considering my W and what's she's all about. If she didn't get me a card, there's a reason.
Anyway, obviously I got over it because I totally forgot about it in my earlier journaling.
Yes i think that was kind of odd.My W got me one,a caring and thoughtful one at that. Does your W still insist she is not seeing Om? Also i remember you saying something about the Om's brother,and how somehow he is in the picture? Cant say about you,but if it were me and my W said that she was trying to work things out with me,i would not see that as cutting ALL ties with Om,and surely would not be ok in my book. You may have to refresh me on exactly where yall are at in your R.
I am pretty positive she has not seen OM in a long time and think she has no plans to. It ended REALLY badly, with him threatening her and getting physical at one point. I sincerely doubt she'll go back for more of that. She's not the kind of woman to put up with that crap for long.
As for OM's brother, and really, I think more his W, my W insists that they were instrumental in helping her separate from OM when he became obsessive. I met them and they SEEM to be ok. I am willing to not make this an issue so long as OM is not in the picture. From what I understand (of course it could all be lies but I don't think so from my listening to a phone convo between W and OM brother/wife...btw, she LET me listen) the brother and OM don't really get along, and things like this with my W are part of the reason they don't, so it's unlikely that he is working with her to hide anything. Again, anything COULD be possible, but these days I am too tired and focused on ME to spend too much time trying to figure out if my W is KGB level spy material. If she is trying THAT hard, then oh well, there isn't much I can do about it. Lastly, I have not really ever given her a reason to hide the affair since I have taken the "ignore the affair" route and not really pushed her about it.
So, I am good, one way or another, in respect to OM. Again, taking into account all factors, what my W tells me, what I can observe, much less free time, lack of clandestine phone calls, much better mood, etc., I see none of the evidence that was VERY present when the A was in full swing. Remember (or know for the first time) that my W was the picture of stress during all this. She couldn't sleep, she couldn't really do much during the day/evening. She just laid around on the couch, totally unmotivated and just really down all the time.
I am still just stuck in terms of "us", and the more I think/read about it, the more I understand that there are still big changes I want to make in myself before I can feel comfortable saying I've done all I can do alone and I NEED her to participate fully in this process. I know this needs to be a two person operation at some point, but for now, there is still work I need to do and that's what I am focused on. I am 100% committed to the idea that my changes alone, if they are true and take me towards being the man I want to be, will be the spark that ignites our new relationship and also causes W to open up (more on W in next post). So far I am still banging metal against flint.
This is all about W today. I almost posted this yesterday and wanted to give it another day to see what happened. What I was observing is W's behavior since Thursday when she finished up her DUI classes. She didn't really talk much about what she did in class except to say that she learned a bit about herself like that she was an "A" type personality and she didn't really ever consider herself one.
The big change though is in her drinking. In the past couple weeks, and really, since I have known her, W has a glass or two, or three of wine every night, without fail. She pretty much never gets to the point of intoxication or noticeable impairment but I suspect that she is self-medicating on some level. Of course, if you know the history of my sitch (I think I also discussed it recently) her drinking has been a HUGE issue between us all of our marriage since I don't drink at all and don't understand much about it.
Well, since Thursday, W has dramatically cut down on her drinking at night, instead making herself some tea before bed, something she hasn't done since the VERY early days of our marriage. This she has done on her own and without fanfare of any sort. She has not mentioned anything to me, nor have I commented on it. It's been 3 days now (Friday & Saturday we were at SIL's and they don't drink so she couldn't then) and I am getting curious. I believe that they may have covered alcoholism in the DUI classes (well, I'm sure they did) and maybe, just maybe, W finally heard it from someone else that she may have a problem, or at least that she should cut down somewhat. Before then, I would have been the only one able to tell her that because she only really drinks at home, doesn't go out that much so friends wouldn't know much at all, and her family doesn't drink so...
Whatever the reason, she has indeed cut down, and for the first time, completely on her own. The only other times I have ever seen her do something like this is after I made a big deal out of it and then she would skip a night or two to prove the point (a suspect one but...) that she was NOT an alcoholic because she could give it up whenever she wanted...and then start back up a couple days later.
I have not really suspected that she is an alcoholic per-se, but she does have SOME of the triats, especially the denial and, well, the lots-o-drinking part. When you take that "are you an alcoholic" test, she comes out borderline. I have never really know if she WAS an alcoholic or if I was just over-reacting because of my lack of drinking. Anyway, that is an OLD discussion, one that I think we beat to death a long time ago and for now, I don't want to revisit much.
My question now is that I am wondering if I should say something. Part of me thinks that I should tell her that I noticed and that I am proud of her, but the other part (usually the RIGHT part) thinks that it would come off as one of two things, me being her father and being proud of her, or me paying too much attention to it.
What do you think? Do I say something, or just let her be? I am leaning towards maybe commenting on it very briefly and then moving on.
First of all, WELCOME BACK. How are you feeling these days? Gotta be close now, eh?
Thanks for the ideas. Yea, I don't want to come off "all about me" nor do I in any way want to be seen as doing any kind of "see, I told ya so" dance. I simply want to encourage her and let her talk to me about it if SHE wants to.
I AM content to just let it happen if I feel that's the best way to go about it. In the end, I just want her to be healthy and yes, it IS much better in the evenings these days. She is a little down sometimes, but for the most part, our communication is better than before, especially late at night.
I will ponder this a bit more, then decide what to do, or decide to make it a "game time decision".
Again, OT, I hope all is well with you and your "condition", lol.
HI GH, I does sound like your W has a drinking problem. A glass or 2 or 3 every night, with the small frame you described... well she hasn't been there with you for a very long time. Regarding mentioning her changes though, I would be very careful about this, especially if it has been a conversation you have had in the past,and especially if some of those conversations focused on her drinking were not pleasant. You don't want the rebellious teenager to come out and replace the reevaluating adult that is currently present. From what you have described of your wife, as an independent "I'll do it myself" type, I would tread very lightly in this new territory for her. At most, I would suggest "Are you having a cup of tea? I'll have one too" and no more, unless she initiates. Or maybe later, if since she is a "Gifts LL person" you can get her a special version of her favorite tea (mine is an organic chamomile import...) I think you are right, she has been self medicating for a long time, and sometimes when forced to take a look (such as in a DUI class) awareness emerges. If she is able to stay sober and enjoy her life with her own feelings and thoughts, all sorts of new awarenesses could emerge... Most people need support for these kinds of changes, but I suspect the best you can do for your W is honor her space rather than move into it. Some people are quite successful at making this kind of change on their own, despite what a lot of the literature says. Maybe she'll share more of the insights she got from the DUI class at some point. That is something she could talk about with you, which could confirm/support the steps she is taking. But I think it would need to be generated from her, rather than you questioning her. And it's way too soon to be proud of her, especially since she has never acknowledged it as a problem to you. I suspect your W is often struggling with feelings of inadequacy and does not want to be seen by you when she is less than perfect (and she often feels like she is).
That's my two cents. Good news though GH for you, if she stays on this path! It is much more fun to spend life with someone who is present more of the time
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Man, your post really brought back some horrid memories of events which catapulted my marital downward spiral. This is where we have some significant similarities.
Before I proceed, I'm with OT on the part about noticing changes. DON'T! I did that, and it made Mr. W. even more angry... any verbal sharing about her drinking is going to be misconstrued as "all about you" and issues of control.
I've got a few years of this under my belt, so you can take what you want and leave the rest. Mr. W. shared with me what he learned in his DUI classes and subsequent C session with the shrink instructor. And even though the message was sobering, he wasn't quite ready to hear the message.
He told me that she was probably right in just about every accusation she leveled against him... right down to the borderline status of alcoholism. You see, he's not physically addicted to alcohol--but it's his preference in self medication as well. That makes them doubly dangerous, because they choose to see alcoholics as physically needing the fix where they can just walk away. Literally, they can without too much physical discomfort... but after a few months of cleansing, the real reasons they prefer to medicate bombard them.
Three months after he was nailed for DUI, he moved out--and he had been sober from the moment he landed in jail. His exit was memorable and very painful, and 3.5 years later, he says that he cannot remember anything about it. Yes, I said *anything*. Right down to the reason why he felt he had to leave.
GH, our MC began to address this with him when he decided to quit that too. Our MC told me later that Mr. W. was very scared of the psychological issues that faced him, and the thought of doing the hard work without a medicinal crutch was very painful. THEN there was the fact that this was one area of our marriage where we had big, big issues. It probably won't come as any surprise to you, but he felt that my commenting on HIS choices was a control issue for me.
No matter how concerned I was or how I expressed that concern, it made him very, VERY angry that I kept tabs on him. And while those of us who need to do intervention with addicted personalities walk a very fine line, there comes a point where *you* have to make a decision to love the person but not their behavior or walk away to keep yourself emotionally safe and sane.
GH, do you have a means of seeking out a good Al-Anon group? Have you ever attended it? If not, I highly recommend it. You've said you don't drink and you don't understand this dynamic. Al-Anon would be very helpful in seeing how your reactions might bring out the worst in her as well... Be very careful when choosing a group, because I found many of them to be whine fests and not very empowering. I finally found one where people held me accountable for my own choices and for expressing my feelings openly and honestly without projecting...
i.e., "If only he'd change, I'd be happier..."
But I attended Al-Anon for my brother, long before I met Mr. W. I certainly could have chosen to employ the basics during our marriage, but I felt that he might listen to me more than my brother did. What was I thinking? That their issues were about me loving them and not their own issues?
Now... if you're asking for advice, this is what I would recommend to you. Leave her be and work on your own stuff. If she really wants to deal with her crap once and for all, she'll get busy. It's frightening to them, and I wouldn't doubt one bit that her issues are what are clouding her ability to make your M work. I know that this very much affected my own M for the same reasons. I sometimes see some tentative steps taken by my XH, and he verbalizes some of the stuff that he figures out. But he's scared and the emotional aftermath is often much more than he can take.
What I do for him now is to listen to him when he wants to talk, and I pray for him. I pray for God to give him the courage to face his demons so that he can live a happy and productive life and that he can be healthy enough to live to see his daughters grow up.
Until she sees medication as a choice, nothing you say will convince her otherwise. She has to want to be convinced, and that job is completely hers to undertake. Leave her be, and work on you and being the best GH you can possibly be. If she chooses not to deal with the issues that bother her, you have choices too.
Don't be surprised if she doesn't go into a very angry period now. Mr. W's lasted for quite some time...
Good luck and lots of hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hi GH, I don't think that I would say anything to your W about her drinking. Alcoholism runs in my family and any time I feel like having a glass of wine (which is not that often because of it running in my family) my H starts to sound like a father figure and this only makes me mad and I'll want to drink more often. Not to get drunk but in my way to say to him it's ok for me to have a drink every now and then, I can handle it and not have a "problem". My H is not drinker just like you. Would much rather have a glass of iced tea. So for sake of my Family and me,I don't drink. Just my 2 cents worth Lonelyinbed
Betsey