Still getting over it!!

[lily]

Matilda,
Ah. . .Love.

*********************************************

Been burned by a needy woman. Yep. She scorched my whole family. Be stupid to get in that situation again. Real stupid. C told us that my H is high risk for another A (geez!). Next one due in 4 years when S turns 21. Much work to do to ensure our R is strong and A proof. Where oh WHere is the love?

[matilda]

Well, the weekend went very well -- for me anyway. We did have a couple of OR talks, which I thought were really helpful, but I'm not too sure about H. I think that anything dealing with the subject of OR makes him feel guilty just for the mere fact that we need to have an OR talk. I woke up Sunday morning crying softly. I don't even remember what caused that. H wrapped his arms around me and said, "I'm sorry." I said, "What are you sorry for? You don't even know why I'm upset." His reply, "Whatever it is, I probably caused it." How sad, huh?

He worked all day Sunday painting the kitchen and installing new recessed lights, so that evening we sat in the spa and soaked away our troubles. H had had a cocktail and was smoking a Cuban cigar that his parents had just brought back from Cuba (smugglers ) and it all left him feeling very loose. I took advantage of that to start a conversation about the A. Still need to go over a few things it seems. It was a very good talk (for me, again). H was starting to get upset a little near the end. Like I posted above, and as I told H that night, each time we have what I consider a "good" talk (no recriminations or hysterics - just the facts, ma'am), I feel a little more of my resistence to forgiveness fading away. H was grateful to hear that.

As a result, I can report that I'm having portions of time without this whole mess consuming my full attention. I've been feeling very positive now for almost two weeks. Really no obsessing - just some thoughts here and there that I feel I'm much more in control of now. Of course, it helps that there is much to keep my attention diverted at this time of the year. S had senior prom on Saturday -- what a handsome young man . He graduates HS in a month and I have family coming to stay with us. Also, our BFs' D is getting married the end of June and I'm throwing a couples bridal shower for the couple the day after S graduates from HS cuz a lot of the same people who will be attending his graduation will want to attend the shower. So there are a lot of happy and busy thoughts occupying my mind right now.

Just wanted to update everyone. For now things seem to be getting much better.

Matilda

[ANS]

Boy, Matilda! Did your H ever hurt himself!!! I know he feels regret over what he did, but it just struck me that his regret isn't only about what he did to you, but what he did to himself.

I'm glad you feel the resistance to forgiveness fading. I certainly understand your H's gratefulness, too.

I really hope you both can "get over it" soon.

Guess you just gotta keep on trying to clense the wounds.

Andy

[matilda]

Andy,

You have no idea how much H hurt himself. I don't think the descriptions I've given here can fully communicate just how much damage he's caused himself. He feels totally defeated and worthless as a man. The other night I told him how ironic it was that for a few moments of "feeling good about himself" cuz of the things the OW would tell him, he has spent almost a year and a half (started feeling this way a long time before he told me) feeling like dirt.

I find myself still in that strange place of trying to heal both of us. Kinda makes me mad sometimes, cuz I really need him to do more to help me heal. But I am realizing more and more that he just isn't capable of that right now.

I'm trying to formulate a plan at this very moment that will help H recover. So far I've tried explaining to him that I don't think he's "that kind of man", and that is why he's feeling so horrible. When you go against your true self, against what you know you should do and really deep down want to do, you will end up paying. That's what's happening to him. He went against who he really is by entering into the A and it's eating him up. To me, that's a good sign. He can't stand that he's hurt me so badly, and that's a good sign (maybe no so selfish after all). I've tried to let him know that he did some really rotten "things", but those mistakes do not make the man.

The other night he says he feels like a fraud cuz nobody knows the "real" him (which is when I went into above speel). I told him that I do know the "real" him and I also know the mistakes he's made, and I love him anyway. He doesn't understand how I can stand the sight of him and why I'd want to stay with him (although says he's very grateful that I do). I told him when I said "for better or for worse" I meant it, and that since I've made it through the "worse" part I'm darned well gonna stick around the the "better" part. Made him laugh.

Anyway, other than those things and trying (yes, I am really trying) to keep the "talks" low-key and fewer and fewer, I'd appreciate any suggestions you or anyone else out there might have for me. Andy, being a guy, maybe you could try to put yourself in my H's head and give me some suggestions. Of course, you're two different people, but any perspective from a guy's point of view would be very helpful. H says it just take time. So far time doesn't seem to be doing him too much good.

Thanks for any insights you might have.

Matilda

[ANS]

Matilda,

I have a pretty good idea of how much your H hurt himself.

I’ve been through it too. And as I struggled with that, my W was in the strange place of dealing with the hurt I inflicted on her whilst trying not to inflict hurt on me.

She felt obliged to tell me about all of my faults and past sins. She told me that she didn’t resent my behavior, but that I must know the things I did, and that they had consequences.

Sounds to me like you’re in the same quandary.

Sounds to me like your H has had his nose rubbed in it the same way I have, and despite your good intentions, he is perhaps too acutely aware of the consequences of his actions.

You know I haven’t and never will cheat on my W. My sins were sins of pure ignorance, so my guilt is certainly not as intense as your H’s. But not a day goes by that I don’t kick myself over my insensitivity.

So you see, Matilda. It’s not so hard for me to put myself in your H’s head.

So… What could my W do to help me get over it?

She could make an effort to make me feel special. That I’m more than just a breadwinner and father to her children. She could empathize with the things that hurt me instead of telling me that they’re the consequences of my own actions.

If she started doing these things tomorrow, it would still take a long time for the pain to go away. In the same way that DBing takes a long time to sink in for our spouses, it would take a long time for me to believe that her true feelings about me have changed.

You say that so far, time doesn’t seem to be doing your H much good. But, it is Matilda. As long as you continue to decrease the intensity and frequency of the “talks”, it’s going to help.

But there’s absolutely no way he can forgive himself until you forgive him.

Hope this helps.

Andy

[matilda]

Thanks, Andy.

I know that had to take a lot for you to share with me. I think I already knew instinctively what had to be done. I guess up until now I've been wallowing so much in my own pain that I haven't given much consideration to H's. And, surprisingly, when I do consider his pain it takes the focus off mine and makes me feel better all the way around!!

I spoke to MC today about these very things. He said pretty much what you did -- H will get better when he sees that I'm getting better. H can't begin to forgive himself until I forgive him.

I'll just keep trying. Like I told MC today (and he fully agreed), I'm the stronger one in this relationship. I guess it's up to me to heal us both. Can't help but feel a little resentful, though. Ya know what I mean?

Matilda

[lily]

There is no room for resentment, Matilda. That little destructive emotion reared its head for me last night and I made myself just blow it away.

You've been through a lot and now it's time to gather the boards for the bridge to the rest of your lives together. Pitch the crappy ones over the side, make sure the ones of forgiveness and trust and love are all straight and strong. That's your foundation. The planks are the good things you want; the pegs and ropes are your hopes and committment.

Push your sleeves up and have fun building.

Another little mantra: I'd rather be happy than right.

You go, girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[matilda]

Lily,

You do have a way with words! I think I've been building that bridge for well over a year now. I did "feel" something was wrong way before H told me, so I was gathering up the planks and building that bridge before the actually bomb dropped. I think it's nearly complete now. MC today told me forgiveness is a process -- a little at a time. He sees great improvement in my "forgiving attitude" and expects me to continue to progress. I feel it, too.

And, as I told MC today, I've actually caught myself NOT thinking about H's actions of the past. That gives me such hope that someday down the line that bridge will finally be completed and I will reach out for H's hand and we will cross that bridge and never look back.

Matilda

[ANS]

Matilda,

Of course you knew instinctively what had to be done. We have a lot more intuition than we think, and we lose confidence in our intuition when we’re blind-sided with the bomb. That’s one of the values of the bb. We get confirmation of what we already know.

I think the fact that considering his pain takes away from your own is caused by the realization that you’re in this together. You’re really on the same team. Just gotta get together on the game plan. Y’know?

Something struck me about what you and your MC agreed upon…

quote:Originally posted by matilda:

I'll just keep trying. Like I told MC today (and he fully agreed), I'm the stronger one in this relationship. I guess it's up to me to heal us both.

You’re in control, that’s true. But don’t underestimate your H’s strength. Control and strength aren’t the same thing. You’ve alluded to it before in your posts… that the easy way out for your H would be to throw up his hands and give up. It would be easy for him to say, “I blew it. It can’t be fixed, so I guess it’s time for us to move on (separately). He’s showing a lot of intestinal fortitude by trying to work through his feelings.

About a year ago (May 24, 2001), I wrote a letter to my W. This is – in part – what I said:

quote:I depend on you more than any other person. But, that’s not a bad thing. You aren’t my whole life, and I have the strength to depend on you. Yes, it takes strength to depend on someone. In order to do that, one has to be aware that if something happens to take that person away, one has to be able to carry on, and eventually fill the gap left by that person’s absence. Yes, I’d stumble, but I wouldn’t fall.

I love you more than ever. You’re my best and closest friend. I want to grow old with you. Not by stifling either of our activities or friendships, but by nurturing ours.

I love you dearly.

Andy

I’ve ceded most of the control in my R to my W. Does that make me weak? I hafta tell you that it takes all of my strength sometimes. You’ve read my posts. You know it’s true. When I was in control of my R, it was easy. Did that take strength?

Go give your H a great big hug, Matilda.

Andy

[matilda]

Andy,

I see your point about H's strength. I guess I was considering him to be weak because he gave into the temptations of the A and the OW. I was considering myself strong because I've never given into those temptations. I am realizing more and more how much strength it really takes for him to stay and "face the music." And I told him that last night. By the way, yesterday was the 7th month anniversary when the bomb dropped. Also one year ago on the same date we had an OR conversation which was very disturbing to me at the time cuz I had no idea what was happening at that time. I didn't mention any of this to H. Actually, I didn't dwell much on it myself!

Last night H asked what happened with the MC. I reported, "Not much, really." Told H that MC and I talked about some of the conversations H and I had over the past week. Told H that I am really getting how much fortitude and how much love and caring it takes for him to stay and take all that I've dished out. If he didn't care so much he would've been a WAH, could've said month ago, "Screw this. I said I'm sorry, what do you want from me?" I told him I was very glad he was here working through this together. He told me, "Thanks for sticking with me -- for now." I just kinda laughed and gave him a hug. Later I thought maybe the "for now" part was added on cuz he needed some reassurance from me, but I missed it at the moment.

Anyway, told H that he was invited back to MC next week. He seemed happy to hear that. Now, mind you, H hates going to MC. He does it for me, for us. But when I told him he was to be included next week, he smiled and said, "Great." I think he's been afraid that if MC felt we needed 1 on 1 time that it didn't bode well for the survival of the M. He knows now we'll just be concentrating on getting OR back on track with the MC.

So our conversation last night was very short. And then I DROPPED IT! I'm so proud of myself. I'm sure H was surprised - pleasantly. He expects that anytime any of this stuff is brought up it'll turn into a long drawn out affair (yikes, gotta watch my verbage!) and he'll end up with chest pains and an upset stomach. Not last night. Yeah, for me.

I feel like I've turned a corner. I don't think about the past constantly now (still a little more than I'd like), and I'm able to dump the trash easier now than before. I'm also a lot happier just within myself. I really like what you wrote to your W, Andy. That's the way I'm feeling right now -- and it's empowering. I hope is to go through the rest of my life with H by my side, but I can and will survive and be happy if that is not to be.

I've grown a lot through all of this mess. I've come to understand that what H did he did not do TO me. He made mistakes and bad choices which have consequences that he has to live with for the rest of his life. He did that TO himself. Unfortunately, I also have to live with the consequences of his actions. And as difficult as that is to come to terms with, at least I can say that I'm only the receipient of his actions. For him, he has to come to terms with the fact that he's not only the receipient of his own actions, but he has caused someone he loves great pain. To me, that's twice as bad. I finally understand why he continues to insist he'd rather be me -- he wishes he was in my shoes. To feel like such an utter failure not only to yourself, but to the very person you wanted so much to be successful for must be very difficult to live with, indeed.

Thanks for listening. For me to write these things down helps to open my heart for compassion for my H.

Matilda