Matilda, Wish I had some brilliant words of wisdom to impart here that would help you and your H. Sounds to me like he hasn't forgiven himself yet for what he did to you. He really does need to do that. My H has never said he has forgiven himself and maybe he doesn't feel the need to. Some men are stronger than others and are able to face what they did and move on to fixing what went wrong and make sure they never repeat the behavior. Has your H spoken to the C about how he feels. You said he feels like he killed the marriage. Do you feel your marriage is dead? Does he? My H made a comment the other night during our talk that I believe is true. He said that one person can't make or break a marriage,it takes 2 people. He also said that one person can't love the other enough to keep a marriage together,they both have to love. I know that every individual is different and they all have different levels of what they can handle and live with. What worries me is how long will your H continue to "beat himself up" over what he did? How long will you be able to take the way he is acting? Please don't get mad here but I need to know...do you throw it up at him constantly? What I'm getting at is if every time there is a disagreement or you are feeling down do you bring the A up? Talking about the A and discussing your feeling and asking questions are one thing but using the A as a weapon can't be good. When my H and I talked the first time after I discovered the A and I told him that I forgave him,I made him a promise. I promised him that I would never use it against him when we had a disagreement or a problem in the future. Yes,I have brought it up but only when he asked what was wrong because he sensed I was down or like the other night when we were talking about love and marriage. We weren't having problems or fighting then. We just had open,honest discussions about what happened ,what we felt and what we were feeling. Yes,my H feels like scum for what he did (and he should) but I don't want him to feel so bad and so guilty that he can't move forward. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? I'm not sure I have explained myself real well. I don't want him to ever forget what he did and I will never forget what he did but we can't allow the pain to keep us from living a happy,fulfilling and loving life together. Maybe you should just tell you H, "yes you screwed up really bad,you are a scum bucket but you are my scum bucket and I love you in spite of it!" When my H said that he was an "ass hole" I totally agreed with him but assured him that he was mine and I loved him anyway [Smile] !! One reason we have been able to move forward as we have is because I feel like I really honestly and truly did "forgive" and he really honestly and truly was sorry for what he did and was so thankful that I loved him enough to forgive. The changes we made in the way we started treating each other after the A also helped us move forward faster. Our love for each other was strong enough to help us through. I believe in my heart that infidelity can be forgiven and a marriage can come through it and be stronger,happier and more loving. pfroglady