Thank you all for your kind words. I must admit many times I think I must be an idiot, a very weak person with little self-esteem to even consider staying with a person who has hurt me so much. I wonder sometimes if my H thinks those things, too. I guess if I'm honest, however, I know he doesn't feet that way. I know he's very glad I'm giving us a second chance. Out of the blue yesterday in an e-mail to me he wrote: "Thanks for sticking with me -- at least for now." Obviously, he thinks it may all still blow up in his face eventually. One early morning last week while still in bed he put his arms around me and pulled me close and just held on for dear life. He's terrified of losing me. I wish I could understand how a man who obviously loves his W so much could betray and hurt her so deeply. I guess I'll never understand. I don't think he even understands.
It's nice to get affirmation that what I'm trying to do here is a good thing, the right thing. It's nice to be told that I'm admired for what I'm trying to do here. Out in the real world all I'd hear is "throw the SOB out. Don't let him walk all over you." I probably would have said the same thing in the past. I will never make the mistake of judging how people choose to handle their relationships again.
Lily, it hurts me to hear you' love to be in my shoes. I know what you mean cuz I've kept up on your thread, but how sad it seems that my situation is one of the "good" ones -- ya know what I mean? If my situ is "good" (and I know it is considering what so many others are going through) and I still hurt so much, I just can't imagine what others must be going through.
Considering everything that could have happened and didn't, maybe I need to start focusing a little more on being grateful that my M and my family is intact. I need to start focusing on the fact that my H was an idiot and very immature in many ways, but he's finally grown up, is taking responsiblity for his actions, and is doing his best to repair our M.
I sure wish I could get the images of them together out of my mind, though. That's really eating me up. I try the thought-stopping technique. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't. And then, like someone said, it's there a conspiracy out there to keep throwing it up in my face (all of our faces). T.V., movies, books, news stories. It seemed like for the first month after learning about the A EVERYTHING on t.v. dealt with some sort of cheating!
Well, enough of that. Actually, I do feel my PMA is stronger today. I woke up today with a migraine, which means the last two days I've been on a hormonal roller coaster. So that is probably why I felt so negative. Although the negative feels are real and not to be discounted, but I think the hormones intensify them and sometimes make me feel hopeless. Today I feel hopeful. YEAH!!
"He who has not tasted the bitter does not understand the sweet".
Matilda, you keep going back for the bitter tastes. Reach for the sweetness and bypass the bitter.
At least, that's what I tell myself.
BTW my H is coming out of whatever you want to call it. He's amazed when the C comments that the two of us have been working so hard. I thought she meant that H had reached somewhere deep within himself to change his mind, change his perceptions of me and us. That is hard work. Me? I feel like I'm resting, catching my breath, adjusting my thong (LOL) and waiting for H to catch up.
You're going to get to the other side and you're gonna love him as much as he loves you!!!
I like that saying! I'm think I'm gonna get a self-hypnosis tape and try to "hypnotize" myself into only thinking about the sweet and block out the bitter.
I went to Victoria's Secret today and bought a couple of "special" things to make the weekend a little more fun for H. This was an especially difficult week for us both, but today H called and is very excited cuz he closed a big deal, so I thought maybe we should celebrate .
I know I'm lucky, Lily. Believe me, I know just how lucky I am. It just seems odd to say that in this situation when he's caused me so much pain, ya know?
quote:Originally posted by matilda April 13, 2002 12:58 PM onGlimpses of the Days of Rebuilding of Our World (Page 2): I wish he'd talk to me about his feelings once in a while. I told him maybe we'd be able to help each other better if he did. So far he's made a quick remark here and there. I haven't jumped all over it, so maybe he's getting the idea that he can actually talk about his feelings without me attacking him.
My comment:
I’ll tell you something about what stops me from discussing my feelings… Embarassement and humiliation. We all have done things we regret deeply. Those are the things we just want to forget about. My W has stated that she wants to be more open. There are, however, some things that I would discuss if she really wants to, but it would not be a “sharing” experience. You can’t really share humiliation.
Andy
[ April 15, 2002, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: ANS ]
I guess I already knew that he doesn't want to talk about how he's feeling cuz of his embarrassment and humiliation. I think the "bad" part of me wants to know he's feeling that way, wants to know he's hurting. I know that's very immature of me, believe me I know that. I'm struggling with keeping the revenge factor under control, and I realize that making him re-live his most embarrassing and shameful moments is a form of revenge. I am working on that, honestly I am.
Last night he opened up to me somewhat. I just listened, making a comment here and there, trying not to sound judgemental. He mentioned those feeings of shame, humiliation, embarressment, etc. He said it's hard for him to come home in the evenings - not because he wants to be anywhere else, but because he has to face me! And, he says, it's not because of the way I treat him, it's just that I "know" what he's done. At least at work he can remain annoymous. People there think of him the way he wants people to think of him; the way he used to view himself; the person he always wanted to be: as an honest, truthful man; a man who is sincere and has integrity.
He told me that the thing he regrets most is having hurt and disappointed me so badly. He feels that there will always be this "elephant" between us no matter how close be get. He's frustrated that he can't erase what's happened so that I can look at him with pride and admiration again. He feels the only thing worse he could have done would have been to committ murder - even with that he feels he has in a way. He thinks he's killed our M.
I don't know how we put this all back together when we're each others greatest source of pain and anguish. He's mine because of obvious reasons, and I'm his because he can't run and hide from his humiliation when he must come home and face it every day.
I been quietly following your ordeal, looking for some kind of inspiration. I, like you, keep making my W re-live the past. I guess it is a sort of revenge act. Sometimes it seems as if Im the only one hurting here, and I cant stand it. Only when I yell and make her cry do I feel sympathy towards her. I dont know how you've lasted as long as you have, for my ordeal happened 6 years ago, and it feels like it was only yesterday. I know she didnt mean to hurt me like she has, but it is still hard to find some comfort in that thought. She has done anything in her will to make me feel better about the whole experience, but Im finding letting go of the past is way easier said than done. It only hurts to re-live it though, so its in my best interest to let it go.
Forgiveness really is the key here, for without it you only keep letting that person continue to hurt you, and I dont like living this way. The W and I are attending a Retroavaille weekend in about 2 weeks. Im kinda pinning my last hopes on this, for something has got to happen in order for me to be happy. Im on the edge of leaving, for I really dont know what else to do. I know I have lived with the pain for 3 months since she told me, and I dont want to hurt no more. It becomes all consuming when Im not around her to see how she feels about us. She really has become a better person than I am. She believes in Church and God, and prays to Him every day to relieve me of the pain and suffering I go through. Geeez, sorry for writing this on your thread, just got carried away. Seems so easy to do to.
Keep being strong Matilda, for you seem to have what it takes to survive this. Keep posting also, for I do look at your words for some inspiration.
Matilda, Wish I had some brilliant words of wisdom to impart here that would help you and your H. Sounds to me like he hasn't forgiven himself yet for what he did to you. He really does need to do that. My H has never said he has forgiven himself and maybe he doesn't feel the need to. Some men are stronger than others and are able to face what they did and move on to fixing what went wrong and make sure they never repeat the behavior. Has your H spoken to the C about how he feels. You said he feels like he killed the marriage. Do you feel your marriage is dead? Does he? My H made a comment the other night during our talk that I believe is true. He said that one person can't make or break a marriage,it takes 2 people. He also said that one person can't love the other enough to keep a marriage together,they both have to love. I know that every individual is different and they all have different levels of what they can handle and live with. What worries me is how long will your H continue to "beat himself up" over what he did? How long will you be able to take the way he is acting? Please don't get mad here but I need to know...do you throw it up at him constantly? What I'm getting at is if every time there is a disagreement or you are feeling down do you bring the A up? Talking about the A and discussing your feeling and asking questions are one thing but using the A as a weapon can't be good. When my H and I talked the first time after I discovered the A and I told him that I forgave him,I made him a promise. I promised him that I would never use it against him when we had a disagreement or a problem in the future. Yes,I have brought it up but only when he asked what was wrong because he sensed I was down or like the other night when we were talking about love and marriage. We weren't having problems or fighting then. We just had open,honest discussions about what happened ,what we felt and what we were feeling. Yes,my H feels like scum for what he did (and he should) but I don't want him to feel so bad and so guilty that he can't move forward. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? I'm not sure I have explained myself real well. I don't want him to ever forget what he did and I will never forget what he did but we can't allow the pain to keep us from living a happy,fulfilling and loving life together. Maybe you should just tell you H, "yes you screwed up really bad,you are a scum bucket but you are my scum bucket and I love you in spite of it!" When my H said that he was an "ass hole" I totally agreed with him but assured him that he was mine and I loved him anyway !! One reason we have been able to move forward as we have is because I feel like I really honestly and truly did "forgive" and he really honestly and truly was sorry for what he did and was so thankful that I loved him enough to forgive. The changes we made in the way we started treating each other after the A also helped us move forward faster. Our love for each other was strong enough to help us through. I believe in my heart that infidelity can be forgiven and a marriage can come through it and be stronger,happier and more loving. pfroglady
Hey, Montana, welcome to my thread and thanks for posting.
I've kept up a little on your thread also, and if I remember correctly your W had an A 6 years ago after you'd been married about a year. You have one child -- am I right. I'll try to find your thread again and catch up.
Montana, I know how much you're hurting. I hate to tell you this, you're gonna hurt for a while to come. I love telling you this part, though, it does get better. It's only been 6.5 months since I found out, and the difference is amazing! Don't get me wrong - I still hurt. Sometimes I can get pretty darned angry, too. But, guess what? I can breathe now. I know I'm going to live. I know I'm going to make it through this. There was a time I wondered how a person could possibly hurt as much as I was hurting and survive. But, I'm here and I'm basically pretty happy. I still have a l-o-n-g way to go, but I'm getting there.
I think I posted on your thread that I felt your W was showing you just how much she loves you by telling you about the past. I think women really understand how lies and deceit can undermine the very foundation of a marriage. She is trying to shore up that foundation and make it strong again so that hopefully you can build a strong marriage on top of it. Sometimes I wish my H hadn't told me about the A, but then there would have always been a secret he was keeping that someday could have blown up in his face. I have a lot of respect for my H for having the "balls" to tell me on his own. I think he was also showing me respect by telling me himself rather than having me find out on my own. That would have killed me (after I killed him, of course
It worries me to hear you say you're pinning your last hopes on your upcoming Retonville weekend. Hon, you're only 3 months into this. Don't expect miracles in one weekend. It's gonna take a lot of time, work, committment -- and most of all, love -- to make it through this. Yes, go to your weekend, keep posting here, read DB & DR -- but don't think that just any one thing is going to be a miracle cure for you. Believe me, if there were such a thing, I'd have a patent on it by now. (I've been hoping for amnesia. H offered to hit me over the head with a club -- just kidding ).
The most important thing is to decide what you really want. Is keeping your family together and working your way back to a terrific R with your W what you really want? If so, make that decision and keep you eye on the prize. I know that sounds easier said that done. I'm still working on it myself. Well, actually, what I'm really working on is letting go of the past. Like Andy said, "You can't unring a bell." Not much comfort, but totally true. Try to imagine yourself 1 year from now without your W. Are you happier w/o her? Do you miss her touch, her laugh, her kisses? Do you miss those "special" things she does for you? Isn't it worth giving it all you've got to make your M work. I know you have it in your cuz you're here. You want help. You want it to work.
You also want someone to take the pain away, and nobody can help you there. You have to go through it. But think about this -- how much MORE painful would divorce be? You see, you are one of the lucky ones here. Your W didn't run way with the OM. She realized her mistake and ended it. She loves you and wants to have a future with you. You, like myself and Pfroglady and a few others, are very lucky that we didn't have to go through the torture that so many others are going through. And, yes, I know you don't feel lucky. Like I posted to Lily, "It seems strange to say I'm LUCKY in this situation." But considering the alternatives, I will concede to being "lucky." And so should you.
So keep working at it, Montana. It will take time, but you owe it to yourself and your D (?) to do everything in your power to stay with your W and have a happy, loving M.
Well, Pfroglady, I am s-o-o angry with you ! Just kidding, of course. I want everyone to be honest with me here.
I really don't think I "throw" the A in his face. I've made a conscious effort to not make hurtful comments or snide remarks. We really haven't had any arguments or disagreements, so I haven't had any occasion to use it against him. And, quite honestly, I don't think I'd need to cuz he said the other night he tries to avoid anything that might bring "things" up.
No, he hasn't forgiven himself; and, yes, we have discussed it with MC. He just feels so horrible about himself. He feels God has run out of grace for him. He doesn't understand how I can still love him, and he told me the other night he doesn't deserve my love. However, he also said he was very grateful that I've giving us a chance and he thinks I'm very courageous for even trying to make things work.
Many times in the past I've written that sometimes I think H has been more affected by his A than me. I'm not sure that he will ever completely forgive himself. Once at the MC we were discussing my past and what is making it so hard for me to get passed the pain and move on. My dad committed suicide when I was 5, and I was molested by a trusted family friend when I was 12. So I have HUGE trust issues with men. H knew all this, but had never considered how his A would devastate me because of my past. He knew that I trusted him totally and completely, and he knew just how hard it was for me to get to that point of trust. He knew that he was the only man in the world I really ever trusted. And he broke that trust. He broke that trust without a second thought to what it would do to me. That is what's killing him. He KNOWS just how much he's let me down. He's humilated to realize how stupid he's been; that he almost blew it over a tramp like the OW because "of the way she made him feel." Cuz, guess what, he feels like shit now and has for a very long time -- much longer than those "good feeling" he got from her.
Well, gotta go for now. I'll post more later. Gotta feed the hungry masses.
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!! One reason we have been able to move forward as we have is because I feel like I really honestly and truly did "forgive" and he really honestly and truly was sorry for what he did and was so thankful that I loved him enough to forgive. The changes we made in the way we started treating each other after the A also helped us move forward faster. Our love for each other was strong enough to help us through. I believe in my heart that infidelity can be forgiven and a marriage can come through it and be stronger,happier and more loving. pfroglady![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
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