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[amd]

What does your gut say, Gwyn? And was this a one-time thing or is it reallly constant?

[Gwyn]

I'm afraid not. He has told me so many lies throughout our R. Why is that we just overlook these significant character flaws when dating? Is it because the good out weighs the bad? Lies should be a red flag, shouldn't it? I knew they were lies when he told them to me, yet I enjoyed being around him so much, it didn't seem to matter at the time. Now, looking back, it was a very significant sign. At any rate, I married him and I believe that there was a reason why I did so I try to work on the positives.

My gut feeling? Hmmm. My gut feeling is that my H is a pathelogical lier. Now what? Do I call him on the untruths or do I just ignore them. Are the "little white lies" really significant enough to end our R? Please, adivse is most appreciated. It's all confusing, especially when I'm so close to the sitch. I love hearing the unbiased opinions. They really do help.

Thanks.
Gwyn

[cat03]

hey gwyn! there you are, glad you had a good time.

I hear you about the lying, it comes as easy as breathing to my H too, stupid little lies even when I tell him to just come clean and I wont' make a fuss.
Sadly, it is horrible habit hard to break. For the time being choose your battles. I for now dont' care for lying either, of any kind, my H thinks you can lie if it will make things run smoothly or to avoid conflict. We've gone through this before, he just thinks all people lie and he will try to tell the truth but I can see he stil thinks occasional lying is ok. Unless you suspect he is lying to you about a significant aspect of your R, dont' make a huge issue of it just yet.

The other thing is, how do you react when you find out he's lied, do you you get really angry and confront him? Lord knows anyone would've gone bananas like I did when I found out about the OP and the A, (he was like "and that' s why I didnt' tell you" YEAH RIGHT.)

Anyways, my point is, does he feel he will be attacked if he comes out w/the truth? I don't think you and I can do much on that dept., so unless we really smell a rat we'll have to let some white lies go by, sometimes we won't even have a choice. I think that stinks, but I dont' see any other way, any body had a different opinion?

[Gwyn]

After all that we've been through, why in the heck would our H think that they wouldn't be attacked? For heavens sake, are they stupid? Do they think we're made of iron? Of course we'll attack, all of us in different ways, some verbal, some emotional, some by detaching, some physical, but yes, we will attack in some way.

Just hearing my H tell this lie has lead me to a decision, and that is, if I become aware of him telling me a lie - it must be significant, not the stupid "my kids are better than your kids" lie, but something that would affect me - financially or emotionallly, I will walk away from this marriage. I have gained a huge amount of strength this last year and a half and unless I use this strength and knowledge for MY self-esteem and self worth, then it would be all for nothing. I expect nothing from my H. I expect everything from me.

[Gwyn]

Haven't posted very much lately but I've got a question for you all. When my H tells me that he loves me, it doesn't seem sincere, almost as if he's trying to convince himself. Does anyone here in piecing have any similar circumstance? Any words of wisdom?

[cat03]

well, my H has been back for 6mths and no ILYs, I don't say it either, now and then only, not because I don't feel it but 'cause I dont' want to be confronted with a no reply and I know his heart is still not with me.

How long did it take him to say ILY? what makes you feel they aren't sincere?

[Gwyn]

Hello all. I don't post much but today I need a little help, encouragement or words of wisdom.

Everything is going very well with me and H. We laugh, we joke, we enjoy each other's company, he's doing everything he can do to win my trust. So what's my problem, right? Well, I have yet to get a good night's sleep. I wake up continually during the night, second guessing myself. I wake up thinking about his A and think about it several times during the day. I don't talk about it to anyone, not even my H, I try to deal with this alone. I have almost come to the conclusion that I am one of those people who will not be able to overcome this. And there are those out there. Our M is good, I love my H, but because I held his morals to such a high standard and he disappointed me so greatly, I may not be able to move one with him. I try to think life without him, it sucks and I try to think of my life with him and continue to battle myself and that sucks too. So what do you do?

Thanks for any advise out there.

Oh, Cat03, as far as how long did it take for my H to say ILY, the very second I found out and he never quits. I believe he truely loves me. Thats the irony of it all, he loves me but yet he put me through hell.

[toughlover]

Everything is going very well with me and H. We laugh, we joke, we enjoy each other's company, he's doing everything he can do to win my trust. So what's my problem, right? Well, I have yet to get a good night's sleep. I wake up continually during the night, second guessing myself. I wake up thinking about his A and think about it several times during the day. I don't talk about it to anyone, not even my H, I try to deal with this alone.

Me too...except we're in MC so I talk to our C.

Our M is good, I love my H, but because I held his morals to such a high standard and he disappointed me so greatly, I may not be able to move one with him. I try to think life without him, it sucks and I try to think of my life with him and continue to battle myself and that sucks too. So what do you do?

You're one of the few folks on here who seem to feel about like I do. I'm in a very similar position with my W.

You asked, "So what do you do?"

For me, my vow to love, honor, and cherish my W "for better or worse, forsaking all others, til death do us part" means something. I choose to stand by that commitment, because there is no real "out" clause there. My choice. It either means something, or it was some pretty words I said once.

It's got to mean something, particularly in our disposable society. I figure my sons are learning about what love is right now from what my wife and I do and what we show them.

Until I found out about what she had been up to, I actually considered her the "glowing" one in our marriage. I knew she wasn't perfect, but I didn't think she'd stoop as low as she did. It was then I realized how immature she truly was even though she could come across as much more mature and "together". I think she's got a lot of growing to do. Your H may be in the same boat, I don't know.

I do know that I had to come to the point where I realized I wasn't holding this marriage together because *sigh* she was special. She isn't, not in that sense, not after what has gone on. I had to ask myself WHY I even wanted to continue as her husband or save our M apart from for our kids' sake.

I want to be married to someone I can trust and admire, someone who will encourage and help me be the best I can, not suck the life out of me behind my back.

In my case, I truly believe she is working toward that, working on herself first, just as I had to/have to. She's not quite there yet, but she is making definite steps in that direction, and as time goes on I find that is where I'm investing myself...in helping her do that. The closer she gets to being that kind of person, the more my admiration grows.

That brings me much peace of mind. So, my choice is to honor my commitment and be the best H I can be, be the one God calls me to be with the full acceptance of the risk.

Danged hard to do!

I don't get ILY from her, and in a way I'm disappointed, but I'm also relieved, cause (for me) I don't think it would mean much to me now.

It's been tough for me. It still is. But I came to see how flawed she really is and how she's got a lot of growing to do. And I see that as an opportunity for me to model exactly HOW our M should be and could be and, in some ways, already IS even this soon post-bomb.

I believe he truely loves me. Thats the irony of it all, he loves me but yet he put me through hell.

Yes, but WAS quality of love is even more flawed than usual, I think.

I think they still have a lot of learning to do about what love really is. I think the quality of whatever my W calls love isn't real swift, which is why I don't get TOO bent out of shape anymore when I don't hear the ILY stuff.

WAS haven't been very successful at demonstrating that. WE have an opportunity to. There's a good chance they'll get the message.

[cat03]

oh honey))))))))))))), its' one of "those" times huh? I'm sort of there too, after a long time of the A not being the first thing in my mind I've started to think of H and the op and their SL, not the betrayal itself but the SL.

Both of us are torturing ourselves, so we need to quickly label these thoughts that are damaging us. To remember that our H's were living separate lives from us when the A happened, and that an A is a desperate DESPERATE act out of misery.

Honey, the reason I also think of these things, weirdly enough, is that my H is acting more normal w/me and I think " I can't believe he did this! that he slept w/someone else!" it boggles the mind, I know it, my H was the most conservative guy you'd ever meet, EVER.

We must remember they didnt' have all their wits together when they had the As, their minds were full of sh*t (I don't curse but honestly, there is no other way to put it.)

I just have to share this great post from Muddle, they guy can write:

Love is action, so we need to put aside our fears and act in love - not for fear that we'll lose all the material things in our lives if we don't do so well enough, but because we know that altruistic love is the highest calling and expression of our spirits, and we want to realize that part of ourselves. This is an expression of self love, love of our life and universe and of our spouses. It asks for nothing in return - not even from ourselves. It's not a form of emotional capital that entitles us to benefits because we have invested emotional energy in some event or person. It's a state of being, one that we all have a desire to strive for, and our spouses are our mirrors, helping us fine-tune ourselves as vessels for this calling. This situation we are going through is a test, one that gives us the ultimate opportunity to love under the most difficult of circumstances, one where our minds are clouded with the darkest emotions we can experience. It's a challenge to see people that are hurting us as people, not as evil or something that would be more convenient in the moment due to the hurt we are feeling. They are people just as we are making their choices. We HAVE to love them as our equals, regardless of how we rate their choices.

I also think I have too much time in my hands, dont' get me wrong now, I work FT and care for kids and home on my own while H is in training, but I see i'm not putting anything positive in my brain. I got this great book at the library yesterday, can't remember the exact title but it was about healing marriages that have been hurt. For you, I insist you get "battlefield of the mind" I have the devotional, but the full version is more complete. Our minds are true battlefields and it is a constant struggle to weed the bad stuff that constantly assaults us. We need to feed our brains with positive messages so we dont' dwell on the pass and to strenth us when we get attacked.

Hugs hon)))))))))))) I hope you get some peace of mind, I sleep like a baby now, but I can recall when I was going through the same restelessness and lack of sleep.

[Gwyn]

You are a carbon copy of me! I stay for the same reasons, to honor my vow and marriage is to honor God. That's exactly why I stay!!! This is a second M for both of us. I was a WAS from my first H, total marital neglect on the first, so I left. I had to deal with a lot of guilt and shame that goes with being a WAS and I was determined not to make that mistake again. I had all the warning signs before I married my current H, but I didn't listen so I guess I got what I deserve. Now I'm convinced that I have to make the best of this situation. First, because it teaches me humility, second, it teaches forgiveness, third, it makes me stronger. Will we make it? Dunno, I'm 18 months into recovery and I'm much better now than in the beginning, but I still have a long way to go. Oh, BTW, we were in MC for about a year and it did help to talk about it but I think we just talked it all out in C so we told our MC good-bye and we'll call him when we need a tune-up. Look, my H and I get along great. We're actually best friends, but as a H, I can't help but think that he's lowsy at that (we were married only a year when he began to cheat). Of course, I don't give him any of these little thoughts, wouldn't do anything but hurt and frankly, both of us have hurt enough. I just grow very weiry of battling with myself. I want to stay, I want to leave, it's tiresome.