If you were posting to me,you must have me confused with someone else. I have never recommended a "Dr Phil" book or even read one.I know he is popular on the Oprah TV show and with a few posters on this board.(I've seen him a couple of times on TV...PBS)
I have other books/authors who have been helpful to in my situ and to me personally. Good luck with the Phil book,though,...it's always great to find a book that is appealing! Yes, Lily, my H of 16 yrs, at the time, told me often that he "did not love me" and "never did love me". He said he "didn't know why he had married me"... . I was not his "soulmate". He was "miserable" with me and had "to get away". Can you believe It? What a crock!!!!! Thank God I surrounded myself with my "invisible guard-all shield"(I'm dating myself,with that one) and deflected the horrendous things that came out of his mouth! I wanted to smack him,he was so outrageous. In reality, I was devastated and broken hearted.It took a tremendous toll on me in every possible way. We'll be, happily, celebrating our 19th wedding anniversary in a few months...guess he remembered why he married me. My posts are in Hopefulness, Piecing,MLC and I found mysrlf in Michele's latest book. Search my member number and you should be asble to find some info. However, I did go back and delete a lot of personal stuff following the restoration of our marriage.I started posting in spring of '99. Keep up the good work...Jenny
Jenny, Hi! Nice to hear you're doing well. I had to get a new computer and a new email address. Anyway, I sent an email to your address. Do you still have it? If so, drop me a line, OK? If not, or if your email has changed, write me at windsurfer919@hotmail.com and I will get back to you. Thanks!
We are doing OK too. 3 years of piecing for me come May. I've been busy...finally going to finish the MS in May and actually graduate. Work keeps me pretty busy too. Hard to believe it was 3 years ago that h ended his PA with the ho. Sometimes it seemed like it never happened, other days it feels like a fresh wound. But it's getting better. Just a slow process. I try not to think about it because it still causes me some anger (not lots, but some) about how close the cliff of destruction came to my toes, and what the fallout did to my family. I don't get on the board too much either. My daughter's grades did not recover enough from that ugly time to help her get college scholarships---which is unfortunate because she has incredible potential.
We will have our 25th anniversary in June. He would not commit to renewal of the vows unless I really pushed it. I did not. I suggested it, he squirmed and basically said he would if I insisted. So I dropped it. But it did hurt a little. I was so hoping we could renew them, (willingly) as if that would finally close that ugly chapter for good. Then I figured...he didn't honor the first set, so what would be magical about the second? Well, no magic, just like it would be a clean slate. But I will not press it. His loss---as I think it would have been cleansing to his soul as well. My soul is doing just fine. I don't have any problem looking in the mirror.
I graduate on 5/9, daughter graduates from HS on 5/23 and then our 25th all within a 4 week period. So lots of activity around our house. I am hoping son and daughter in law will make it home for his sister's grad. He does one more tour in the Persian Gulf and he's out of the Navy in one year and 4 months. None of us can wait for that, especially him. And we all hope the job market is good around here so he can come and work here. D-i-l's parents are hopeful, too as she is from around here.
Well, I must run. Hope to hear from you soon!
Karen, Thanks for letting me squat on your thread! GG
Hi GG! Great hearing from you...WOW.. you've finished your masters...CONGRATULATIONS! That's a tremendous achievement, in light of everything, I am so impressed. Can sympathize with your daughter's situ. My son spiraled way down and I've had more heartache to deal with...what do I have bad karma or something? Haven't recieved your email,so will get back at you...Jenny
I am so grateful to 'know' that there are people who made it to the other side.
Please come back and be sounding boards for those of us who are trying to do what you have done.
Sometimes I become so narrow focused on some aspect of our sit that I become pessimistic and feel like we'll wind up with a marriage that is unfulling.
I have to be patient and let God work. I have to make the changes within myself that enhance the kind of person I really am and not the one I turned into over the years.
I have to let my H deal w his own burdens. I have to trust that he will make the right decisions w regard to THIS R.
It just gets scarey sometimes. I know there are a lot of couples out there who are just going through the motions and are afraid at any moment that what they've tried so hard to keep together could come crashing down at any minute. Brave souls. Sad souls.
If it's God's will, I will be able to lead my H back to an emotional bond WITH ME.
Thank you for any insights you can share!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lily, My H was unhappy for many years prior to "the bomb". I was in denial and attributed his unhappiness to his personality and our extremely stressful lifestyle. I made my own happiness with friends and activities and we started to live parallel lives. Because on some level. I was was aware of the fragility of my H, I was afraid of marriage counseling and never pushed it.(He would have resented the hell out of it, if I had forced it)
When he finally said he wanted out..he meant it! He refused meds and counseling as both were too threatening to his ego. You see he thought "I was his problem". He went to therapy a couple of times as we tried out two counslors(he couldn't stand either one),but he recoiled at at the thought of trying to work things out. It was then I dropped attempts to to fix him and "us" and went to work on myself. I attended marriage therapy by myself, for many months and took antidepressants for a while to help deal with "his craziness". I sought support,24/7 from my many friends on this board and followed Michele's guidelines/recommedations. My "solo" efforts not only saved my own sanity ,but my marriage emerged from the ashes and my H "woke up".. There is a lesson to learn in all of this, I invite you to think about it, Lily.
Jenny: I have a couple of questions for you. How long were you separated? Did H have OW? IF so, did they live together? How did it breakup? How did he come back? Barb
My H had his first indiscretion(that I knew of) in the fifth year of our marriage. I threatened to end our marriage and he was really shaken up. I thought he had learned a lesson, however,I lost much respect and trust (in H) at that time. We really never processed it with each other, let alone through professional counseling. About 10 yrs into the marriage, My H distanced himself from me and seemed to be in low mood most of the time. Anger and hostility manifested a yr or two later. I didn't know what I had done, however I suspected a co worker had seduced him and that he had something going on about a yr prior to the "bomb". I confronted him often and he denied it big time. I work in the mental health field and I attributed much of his behavior to depression and MLC. I thought he had too much integrity and loyalty to our two sons to end the marriage. I was wrong .After a humilating few months in '98, my H confronted me in early '99 stating that he wanted a divorce. He fully intended to obtain one and OW was newly divorced and waiting in the wings. We probably would be divorced by now, had I not found Michele's book and this site. I did a complete turn around ( I had been ,pleading, crying demanding and totally outraged for a couple of months, in response to the bomb) and he actually stayed at home, when I stopped pushing him and detached. It was hell, believe me to have him there,and suffer the humiliation of his constant rejection, but I did it. I listened to the demeaning and hurtful things he said to me in front of therapists (the couple of times that he went) .( If I hadn't put my children first, I would have left him, myself! In addition, I would be D**!#!, if I was going to allow his co worker to reap all the benefits, financial and otherwise that I had helped to work forover the years.) In his mind it was OVER and he wanted no part of me, just the children.He would have been happy if I just droped off the planet. Everyday, I thought it would be the day that he moved out and I fully expected it. I learned to detach and DB and worked on myself. I disappeared in to my professional world.(that was a 180 for me). When he told me he was miserable and was going to move out. I just listened validating his comments. At times I would gently say: You are miserable and I am sorry to see you go,but there'a the door. Barb this went on for a year. Gradually, the OW faded from the picture( I think she got tired of waiting for him) There also were EA'S. However, Barb,Once I read Michele's book...I STOPPED asking about OW or thinking about her. She was just a symptom, not a cause. When he got better, the "symptom" disappeared. I did this all by myself. My H made no effort to restore our marriage and was dead set against it. About a yr into my DBing, I cheerfully asked him to care for the children for a couple of weeks and that I was going away. He said"Away? For what?" I said, "To have some time to think about what I want to do with my life" and "I so appreciate your help". Barb,it was then he woke up...a year of good DBing paid off. The next day he became frantic and so fearful he was going to lose me...the rest is history. So, to answer your question, he did have an OW, he did move out mentally and emotionally, but his body stayed at home for a year.
I had a very good DB buddy who went through the same thing with me at the same time. Her H did move out,physically, for more than a year. He came home! (Her posts are under Jamie,in Hopefulness)
Well my friend, I hope I have answered some of your questions. There is so much more to the whole thing, but I have tried to give you a glimpse.
You give me hope. Thank you. For the past 6 months I have been making changes. At times I'd be very frustrated because I wasn't exactly sure just what I was supposed to be changing
At the core of me is my spirituality. That's finally on track.
Michele, in explaining SBT talks about how the effects of behavior is circular. If only one spouse makes changes, then the other one is likely to be affected by that change. Did she call that the 'butterfly' effect?
Dr. Phil's relationship book has me thinking about my bad habits that I developed during the 28 years of our marriage.
I did something irresponsible and H responded w huge anger. I felt intimadated by his response and that stayed hovering over me like a shadow for years, coloring my interactions w him. The way I interacted now affected him which affected me, etc etc and so on until I again caused him to chose to react in a hugely anger filled manner. I called his bluff (I remember saying, "go ahead and give me your ultimatum; I'm not afraid of you anymore"). It took him 14 years to stuff enough anger so that he could do it. I only found out 4 months ago that the ultimatum was that he would leave me. My secret fear all these years was that that ultimatum would be that he would stop loving me. My God! 26 years of my life was I parternerd in this dance of conflict. My fear became my reality. H's ultimatum almost happened but he accepted my offer of friendship.
The fact that it took him so many years to finally tell me he wanted a D gives me hope that at his core is still some small flame that can be nurtured back to a loving feeling for me.
I am working on my changes. I'm done trying to make him be the perfect H and father. I accept him as my friend.
Thanks for your time.
I have lots more questions for you and any of the other veterans of this scenario.
Jenny: THank you for providing some insight into your situation. You were patient & strong. I know that I am strong to (just not patient, but I'm working on it). It is a daily struggle to know what is going on & how to handle it. Just today, I went to the gym & was alone with the trainer. She mentioned her D. I asked her about it. They were married 23 years, he had OW for 4 years. SHe did not know. He ended up marrying OW> THis scares me so much. My H already has life with OW - has lived with her in their apt for 5 months. (OW made sure she even put both of their names on the door). I see some signs of my H being nicer, but no idea what he is thinking.No signs of him moving towards me. I really wonder what is going on. He does not mention D, though. He may be building up to that. I just wish I knew. Barb
Jenny...Finally, the last one I needed to check up on. I'm glad things still go well for you. How we all got through that horrible time is beyond me, but we did it, and if anything, I hope this thread is hope for others who might think that the end of their marriage is inevitable. I'm not sure why some of us make it and some of us don't, I only know that a marriage is a lot of hard work. It is something that must be nurtured and watched daily. People ask why I let my H stay after his affair or why I did't throw him out the first night. i guess the affair wasn't the problem, it was just a symptom, and if the problem could get solved the symptoms would go away. I, too thought we had a good, solid marriage and was so surprised when he suddenly changed his opinion of our whole life together. He never loved me, was only there for the kids, and on and on...we've all heard it before. Anyway, life is good, my eyes are open, I am taking good care of myself and I love my husband very much. And I know he loves me. So, I'm glad every one is accounted for now. I am so glad your life is progressing well. I hope all goes well with your oldest boy. I'm not sure what is happening there, but I do know what a terrible toll it takes on kids. They are not as resilient as we think they are, and boys seem to be ever so sensitive and need reassurance when thier Hero goes astray. All of a sudden, the Hero has a blemish, and it is difficult for them to understand it. Time will help as long as the family stays healthy. Lots of love and best wishes. Karen
