I've posted here a few times before regarding my LD husband. It's helped a little; if only to reassure myself that I am normal.
To recap briefly, I'm 3 yrs into my 2nd marriage. First lasted 21 years (way too long) 3rd M for my current H.
I know we love each other. And he is the perfect H in always except in bed. He's been this way since the first time we ML. But I was so much in love, that I didn't care at first. Plus, I thought he was just a little shy and once we got more comfortable with each other, he would be a little better. Wrong!
Basically, through conversations (some really painful) I think I know whats wrong. I suspected from the beginning that he was shy (inhibited) At first I thought it was cute, I blushed and changed the subject if I said something like "Wow, do I have cramps, I think my period is about to start" One time, when we first met, I mentioned my birth control method which was the diaphram. He said "what's that?" When I started to explain, he suddenly said "Nevermind, I don't think I want to hear about it." Now I start to get a little worried, his inhibition and very plain sex, always with the lights off and only at night was starting to make sense. He is the kindest, most generous man I know -- out of the bedroom. But I don't think its meaness that makes sex so bad. As time went on, I realized he was so misinformed about the female body. And most attempt I made to explain something made him very uncomfortable. This only a night thing and only in the dark is very weird. He has a great body and I 'm in good shape, whats the prob. He doesn't even let me see him naked in the shower. And I refuse to be like that so I change in front of him all the time. He actually averts his eyes. Another weird thing is he loves for me to dress sexy. He likes to look at me in a bathing suite, shorts, what ever and he likes to dress well in a way that shows his nice build. He also is in no way shy around other people. He'll start a conversation with anyone, loves to go to parties, go dancing, socialize with friends or stranger. However, he is not a flirt. Nor will he tolerate the slightest bit of flirting with me or by me. He had a bad first marriage, which included her having an affair, and he caught her and him in their own bed. So I understood and respected this attitude from the beginning and I have never acted inappropriately toward any other man, Ever..! He will agree with this statement.
Well anyway, for a while I thought it was mostly misinformation about a women's body. So I enlighted him when ever I could, ignoring his blushes. Pretty soon I started being more direct about what I needed. I've never been very shy about sex or my body, but he was starting to make me self-conscious.
Finally, things came to a head about 2 months ago, I blew up one morning after another sleepless night and threatened to leave him. I wasn't playing mind games, I thought I meant it. But the minute the words were out, my heart felt broken, no .... crushed... I can't even begin to describe the pain. I can't give him up.
So I insisted we see a sex therapist, So far, I've been once, alone, he has been once, alone. Next we will go together. After my session: I felt the therapist understood my position exactly, I felt she would help me help him get over what ever his hang ups where, I felt encouraged. Then, he had his session, I was really nervous, I new he was already feeling like I just wanted too much. That I was mean for even suggesting he wasn't "The Man". I was never mean. Just honest. and the truth really hurt him. He was nervous too, and I really thought he would storm out at the first thing the therapist said. (Remember, I thought she was on my side)
Well, when he came out of the office, he looked ok, in fact he was smiling, and relaxed. I hesitated to ask but eventually I asked "how'd it go"
He wouldn't give any details, but he said he felt very encouraged too. He said, just like I had been saying, it really was a fixable problem, and he agreed we had a great marriage except for sex. So far, so good... "anything else" i asked...Well she said its not all my fault" "What's not your fault" I asked, He gave no specific answer, but stated that the therapist asked if I masterbate. Ok, I didn't see that one coming. I thought a minute and concluded that see must think I'm having trouble with orgasms. He have tried to hint without talking about my first marriage, that I have never had a problem with this. I just need the right kind of foreplay. I could even say that I'm fairly easy to bring to orgasm. Or I used to be, after 3 years of frustration and starting to feel self-conscious and not knowing what he is thinking has made it hard at times even if he puts in the right effort. For one thing, I get the feeling he when he does push the right buttons, he is only doing to keep my from getting mad. He acts like my body is kind of gross to him (part of this, I'm sure, has to do with misinformation.)
Well to sum up, I want to know if anyone has ever heard of teaching someone to be less inhibited. The therapist mentioned something called desensatization. Achieved by just exposing him to sex conversation. This is something I had been doing very recently. Telling him things whether he wanted to hear them or not. Getting undressed, in fact parading around naked or half naked like it was the most natural thing in the world (it is to me) But then there are still times I protect his delicate senses.
What do you do with a forty three year old prude? We will continue therapy, but getting him to participate in discussions or do the "home work" assignments of the therapist is like pulling teeth. I'm getting tired of the struggle. I would like to know if anyone else has ever experienced this, what they think causes it, and how do you cure it. I won't settle bad sex much longer. I feel like a cat in heat...plus it just plain hurts my feelings. Also, I need to ML. I literally ache with desire at times. But not just physically, sometimes I just want to feel him. I refer to it as my heart wants sex right now. These are times when he gets to just have fun and not worry about satisfying me. Sometimes, after so much alone time, I just need him. With or without orgasm.
So this was really long, but really there is so much I didnt say. Any feedback is much appreciated.
Desensitization in your H's case makes absolute perfect sense to me. If you continue to protect his "delicate" senses then you are enabling him to go on the way he is. The therapists point isn't so much necessarily "desensitizing" him but getting him accustomed to or more comfortable with sex in his life as a normal acceptable thing.
Talking about it whether he wants to hear it or not....will eventually teach him that it's ok, talking about it won't hurt him, it's not taboo, it's not disgusting, it's something people with a healthy R do. Same thing goes with you going about your life as you would like to. If that means that you are comfortable walking around in front of him in the buff or in your underwear, then do it. If you are comfortable sleeping nude, do it.
DO NOT continue to not do things because it might offend his delicate senses. Your H is going to a therapist, he' willing to work on things, he knows what the C has in mind....go with it, it's a perfect acceptable approach to this problem.
Hmmm... are you thinking that the C is not getting the picture that your H is very inhibited? But when she saw you on your own, I'm sure you made that very clear. Puzzling for sure.
Your H was married twice before... any idea of the sexual state of things in those R's?
Does your H acknowledge that his SD is kind of minimal... or does he just think you're "oversexed"?
My bf is also very prudish. When we met I didn't hesitate to undress in front of him, but his squeamishness has made me feel uncomfortable about it, so I don't anymore. I mentioned on this board one time that in some movie the scene showed Nicole Kidman in bed with someone and the camera was looking down from above and showed her face up with the back of the guy's head next to hers. Then the camera backed up so that soon we would see the full length of both of their bodies, and my bf said something like, "Whoa! Don't back that camera up! We don't want to see that!" Whereupon I said, "Well, *I* want to see it!"
To answer your questions: 1. his other 2 marriages were disasters in every way from the beginning. In his first M, they were very young, I dought that she had the maturity to deal with a sex problem. She problably was to inhibited herself to have a straight talk with him.
It is my opinion, that her anwer was to have an affair. The affair began very early in the M, and continued until he caught them together in their own bed. In fact, a few years ago, he learned thourgh DNA testing that the two children born during their M, were not his! (thats a long story) anyway, The counselor and I find it very strange that an affair can occur, right under your nose, for almost 9 years. But I believe this is true. He describes his reponse to catching them, and it sounds like shock.
Thank you for the encouragement I probably needed to stop protecting his delicate senses. I will resolve to go forward with being myself. I actually started this plan of action on my own, but hearing it from the C and reinforced by this forum, has strengthen my determination. I WON'T BACK DOWN AGAIN1
We see the counselor together in 3 weeks. In the meantime, I have purchased to book "Sex for Idiots" , It sounds awful, but it has easy to read, specific info regarding the male body, female body, normal sexual response and so forth. I Pre-read it and made comments in the margins. In other words, the usual way to use this book would be to read it together and discuss, so considering his hesitance to do this, I made it easy, this time. I also warned him that the next step was to talk about this together. I want to know what he thinks, likes, doesn't like, understands or doesn't understand. Do you think I'm still taking it too easy on him? I havn't seen him even pick up the book yet? Its been 3 days since I told him about it. He is the master at avoidance. Even the "exercises" the councelor sent home took him forever to do. In fact, I clearly explained that the were to be done together. but the last two, he didn't do until right before his appointment, and I wasn't even there to discuss anything, And I don't think the C knows this, ...What I cheat.... But I'm just as tricky as he is, and now that I'm on to his tricks, I won't give up.
I love him too much to let this ruin our M.
Thanks again for your encouragement. If your interested, I'll let ya'll know how the next C session goes.
Quote: Do you think I'm still taking it too easy on him?
Personally, I don't think you can get someone to be more loving by pounding on them. My bf and I had a "come to Jesus" talk yesterday and after going around and around while he turned on what I call "the fog machine" (meaning he talks and talks but there really is no content), he admitted that two years after stopping drinking, he still feels like a baby chick that has newly hatched with the wet feathers and blinking into the sunlight. He didn't actually use these words, but he conveyed to me that he struggles with his addiction and his pain every day... I guess what I'm telling you is that it's hard for us to comprehend the level of pain that these men are coping with every day. He asked me to have even more patience... but he said if I can't (meaning that I would have to leave), he would understand. THAT broke my heart...
I'm not one to use punitive measures to encourage another to soften up and open up. But truly it is hard to know when you've had enough.
My bf fully expects me to walk out on him just like his ex-wife did. Your H probably expects you to screw him over like his ex's did. I guess love, patience, and acceptance is the only way to get past that.
I'm tired of being patient. And the thought that it may be years before I see any progress in this R, makes me unspeakably sad... but I don't know what to do, so until I do, I guess I'll just be patient some more.
Quote: I'm tired of being patient. And the thought that it may be years before I see any progress in this R, makes me unspeakably sad... but I don't know what to do, so until I do, I guess I'll just be patient some more.
RE Lil My bf is also very prudish. When we met I didn't hesitate to undress in front of him, but his squeamishness has made me feel uncomfortable about it, so I don't anymore
I would agree at his house or if the girls are at your house. But do what you like at your house. Nothing wrong with a quick change of clothing.
My bf fully expects me to walk out on him just like his ex-wife did.
Is that your depressor talking? (Yes, I finished the book)
but I don't know what to do, so until I do, I guess I'll just be patient some more.
And in the meantime asking for and "taking" what you need I hope!
he still feels like a baby chick that has newly hatched with the wet feathers and blinking into the sunlight.
That is difficult to believe especially someone that had been through what your bf has (not thinking about his X leaving) and his mother being so frank, uninhibited.
but he said if I can't (meaning that I would have to leave), he would understand.
Would he be able to commit to anyone? Is it that you two are not a match, or is he like one of my friends, Like=yes, love=maybe, commit=not likely, marry/or something short of marriage=probably never. Maybe your bf is living for and in the now/day w/o worrying about the future.
THAT broke my heart...
I feel for you Lil. Wish you were making more progress.
In what way is your boyfriend prudish? Your discription of his reaction to the movie scene sounds very familar to me. In your "come to Jesus" talk, was it in anger or just plain speaking. In my case, my H's perception of our conversations is that I am harsh. In other words, I hurt his male pride. While I have once or twice lost my temper and said things in a tone that I regret, usually, in my opinion, I'm trying to be gentle.
Is your bf considerate and kind in other areas of your life? Do you consider him just LD or just not very good?
I think our guys and the situation are similar? I would welcome your input into what conversations have worked and which have backfired. The difference between our situations is that I'm not dealing with any addiction issues but my guy sure knows how to find other excuses.
I'm not ready to give up yet, but the future really scares me sometimes.
Bunny, if you can manage to plow your way through my very long post on the Safety thread today, you'll get a good description of my come to Jesus talk. It's a lot like the email that Chrome sent his wife and my bf's responses were a lot like Chrome's wife's responses, i.e., just be patient with me.
When we're dealing with day to day stuff, my bf is a prince. He holds up his end of the household stuff, is not moody, will DO anything I ask without complaint-- cook something, run to the store. As long as we keep to the busy things of life, it's perfect.
As soon as we get into the feeling zone, it gets dicey. And if we get into the sexual zone... it gets weird. I can't pin it down.
During romantic movie scenes (that aren't too sexy) his responses are lovely... makes little "awww" sounds, smiles, etc. In fact we watched The Vagina Monologues together and I thought he would be shocked and grossed out, but his responses were very appreciative, sensitive, mature. I can't nail it down.
I know the ED is an issue. I've posted a lot about that in the past. And I think there's a weird vibe between him and his mom.
Having guests for din-din, so must run. Steak, salad, grilled veggies, strawberries-- yum!
(Yes, I finished the book)