Works for me if it works for you. Like I said, there comes a time when we all have to decide what we want and then take action to get it. Your wants/actions may not be the same as mine because as similar as our sitches all may seem, we are all different people with different WAS and different lives, not to mention different abilities to communicate all those things in the posts we make here.
I have come to realize that as good as I am, and you are for that matter, in communicating my sitch to the board, there will NEVER be enough room/time to paint the real picture, even as I understand it, let alone the objective "truth" taking into account her position on things.
My point is that fine, you made a decision that works for you, now you just live it. I think what you are doing has just as much chance to achieve your goals as anything else and applaud you for taking the more difficult path of resisting what you so badly want. I may wish I did more of that in my sitch, we'll see.
As I have said before, I think you will be fine because you are ACTING here and not just reacting.
Ok, I need some guidance and advice today. I'm feeling a little conflicted about this, and I know a good deal of it is because I'm stewing, and thinking about this is causing me to focus on the sitch more than I should.
W is going to take a trip to consumate the A. She asked me to take time off to watch S4 while she went. I told her I would think about it, and if you remember, we had a bit of a blow out over her expecting me to do this without giving me the option. I have given it a lot of thought, and the implication of me doing this goes against my values and I think I can see a lot of potential for me to be ashamed of deciding to do this down the line. The trouble is that I can see this as a good things because the time spent with S4 will be great. I am also sure that should I tell my W that I decided against taking the time off she will give me hell, and the resulting conflict won't be good for the sitch. She will no doubt see this as an attempt to prevent her from going - which I'm not, I just don't want to have anything to do with enabling her doing this because it can and will be seen (by myself to some degree as well as to others) as condoning this.
Regardless of the reaction I anticipate, I know what I want to do. I need to tell her what I've decided. Trouble is, that recently I have been feeling more and more angry at her and about the lunacy of the sitch. I don't want to be shooting myself in the foot by taking this action that could push W away - but at the same time, if she allows herself to be pushed away by me standing up for what I believe in, then she can stay away. I guess I'm not so much confused as scared of the fallout that is certain to come.
So what's the best approach to this for saving my M? She sent me an email with the dates she is planning to be away - I was thinking of responding to this with an explanation of my position, being sure to make my decision all about myself and how this goes against my values. Something about doing this over email seems a little cowardly to me - at least I'm sure that my W will see it that way. The benefit to this though is that I'll be able to get the words out to my satisfaction, unlike verbal communication. No doubt in a conversation, W will dominate the conversation with her tantrum. What an unpleasant position. I wish I didn't have any part in this what-so-ever. I could live my life without allowing this into my personal space. Let me know your thoughts.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
I went through a similar sitch with my W. A few weeks after she announced her A (thinking that having it all in the open would make her feel less guilty which it did not)I decided to state my case for our m. I wrote her a letter telling her of my love for her and that I knew she was not open to us now but these are my dreams for our future etc. She loved it! Cried like a baby and told me how confused she was BUT a few weeks later she informed me that she wanted to go away with OP for 3 days (that didn't sound like confusion to me!), "Is that OK". My first thoughts were "are you insane, how the F could that be OK!" but I held back and instead said "Please don't ask me for permission because I can't give it to you but you are an adult and are free to choose what you wish to do" I let her go. I said "Have a safe trip" (No F'n way I'd say "Have a good time") She says they don't have sex and I believe that in day to day get togethers but going away together for 3 days sleeping in the same bed, give me a break! Anyway, my morals daid what she was doing was wrong, of course, and what your W is wanting to do is wrong too. Yet, do you want to take this stand now? Your W needs to know whether this fantasy she is living is real or not. If you don't allow her to go and do give the ultimatum (I almost told my W "If you go don't come back") be prepared for living hell. Only you can know whether this is the time to say "enough is enough woman" I chose to let her go and let her live with her own conscience afterwards. I also realize that you gave her an ultimatum earlier and now feel you can't back off. If, in your heart, you feel you need to back off then do so. Nothing (almost nothing) is irreparable. You can tell her you've thought long and hard and realize that she must do what she feels she must to resolve this situation. You can't give "permission" but you are man enough to let her make her own choice. It's tempting to keep her away from him but, bottom line is if she's gonna F around, she's going to one way or another. But what the HELL do I know. Anyway I will be thinking of you as you make this decision. It is a tough one. Keep us posted.
I have in fact told her that she is free to do what she wants to, and that I'm not going to try to stop her. What I'm conflicted about is whether to suck it up and take time off to "babysit" while she goes, or tell her that I'm not going to do this because of the implications. I know she will choose to see this as an attempt to prevent her going, and I have half a mind to tell her to tell OM that the cost of her services has gone up and he has to pay for a babysitter.
I don't want to keep her away from him (it would be nice if she decided to stay away). I don't want to make it any easier for her to do this, though.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Being at home during that time might be tough. It gives you too much time to think and no adult time. I know being around co-workers and other parts of my life helps me. Maybe tell her that staying home during that time might be emotionally hard for you and you feel it better if she hires a sitter. This is you taking care of your needs not messing with hers. Just a thought, anyway.
Quote: Maybe tell her that staying home during that time might be emotionally hard for you and you feel it better if she hires a sitter. This is you taking care of your needs not messing with hers.
I know what you say here makes all the sense in the world, and it's totally true, but not in my W's world. When we first discussed this, she made it very clear that she expected me to take time off, and she stood strong and fast to the point of view that I was doing this for S4 because it was my responsibility to him, not for her. After this conversation finally got resolved with her hearing that all I wanted was to be ASKED if I would do this, she explained that the reason she wouldn't look at it this way is because she didn't have options. If she gave me the option, I would say no. She listed all of the people that she knew couldn't help us. She doesn't want to leave him with a stranger. As far as I'm concerned, there are people that she knows that should she ask them to watch S4, I WILL be taking the time off. There are options, she just chooses not to see them right now.
There is a persistent issue in our R that this will bring up. She feels that there is a large disparity in equality in our R as far as doing what we want to. I tend to think that a lot of this comes from her choosing to limit her choices (she has social anxiety disorder, so she is quite accustomed to not doing what she wants to because of her fears), but the fact is that she's sensitive about it. If I take care of my needs in this situation, she will see her needs become impossible. Once again, I will do what I want, and it will appear to be at the expense of what she wants. Sure, this is her issue, and it is a consequence of her choices, but it is a consideration in mine.
Regardless of all of this, I am going to tell her how I feel about taking the time off for her to do this. I think it will be beneficial in the long run both for myself and for her opinion of me, even though I am going to be stepping into the fire for a time. I want to be compassionate and understanding, but I also need to attend to my values and ensuring that my actions and values are in tune.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Isn't that great! She's reminding you of your responsibility meanwhile she's flying off to be with another man. What about her responsibility to her marriage! I love the cheating spouse mindset. You go ahaead and tell her how you feel. You know you'll be walking through fire but as long as you can live with it, go for it!
Here's a draft - let me know if there's anything in here that comes across as too judgemental, or might otherwise cause further damage:
Dear W,
I have given this a lot of thought, and I do appologize for not responding to you sooner. I am not going to be taking the time off on the 3 days you asked me to. There are two reasons for this: 1. it is going to be crunch time at work as I have a deadline of 8/15 for a very important project 2. the message implicit in my taking this time off is that I agree with what you are doing, and I am in fact making it much easier for you to do this. This message goes against my values, and therefore, even though it is sure to make you angry, I need to do right by my self.
I hope you understand where I am coming from. I am not trying to prevent you from doing what you want to do, but I do not want to be part of it.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
You know, when I read that first post yesterday about this sitch, I immediately thought the same thing your W did, that this was really something you were going to do for the kid's sake, not really her's. After reading more, I understand the distinction and I have to say, it's a REALLY tough call. I'm SURE there are a ton of people out there for whom this would NOT be a tough call at all. I would even say many on this board probably feel like you should take a stand.
I FEEL like you should too, but fully understand your hesitation.
Here's the thing. Your W's perception is VERY skewed these days. She is NOT making rational decisions. That said, your letter to her IS judgmental and the work thing added in just sounds like an excuse to me.
Let me be perfectly clear. I say you are being judgmental FROM HER PERSPECTIVE, which I assume you were concerned about. You are most certainly judging this action of hers morally wrong and thus "want no part of it". Well, IT IS MORALLY wrong, but then again, so is the affair as a whole so this distinction seems a BIT arbitrary to me but then again, an overseas trip to consummate a EA seems a pretty good place to draw the line.
I think you have decided this is a boundary for you. I actually think you have made the trip a boundary but haven't come to grips with what it means to you yet. This idea of not taking the time off IS your attempt to try to thwart her plans, and even if it isn't,it looks to all the world like it is. I say more power to you, just understand that it could backfire.
Muddle, I wish I could offer you some solid advice here, like you have to me recently. I just cannot. I don't have a CLUE how I would deal with this any more than you have a clue how you would have dealt with my sitch of W going out 2-3 times a week to see OM. I THINK I know what I would do, but clearly, I am not in your shoes and cannot seem to put myself there.
I guess the only thing I can add, other than more confusion and second guessing, is that maybe it would be best to simply say you are not taking the time off, period. Don't explain yourself or try to justify anything. To me, it really won't matter what you say after "I'm not doing it" because she'll just try to turn it against you and make you feel like an a-hole. Why not let her come up with her own reasons for that.
MuddleThrough, I think GH is right. Just tell her without explanation. I think you have clearly let her know before your misgivings about this trip. No more needs to be said. As GH says, you are going to be the A-hole anyway. I don't think the moral thing will fly or have any impact. She thinks that she is unhappy and therefore has moral right to be happy. That is that. (I told my W she was morally wrong and to do the decent thing and move out! It was a snit and a poorly planned manoever, she's still here) Anyway, I know I sound like a wimp here but I would be inclined to let her go. She needs to know whether this is real or not. I also know what a horrible feeling it is to know that your W is flying off to be with someone else, it tears your heart out. I just don't see how your moral stand will do any good for your sitch. But again, what the heck do I know. You have said before that she sees you as a bit too timid etc. and maybe putting your foot down is the right thing to do. If you feel nows the time to take a stand, then go for it. I'm stumped. Make a good decision that YOU can live with. My thoughts are with you.
