Well, it's another day. Last night was OK - we got an AC installed and cooked dinner together. It went alright - but my W's mood was really on edge. She has been so angry with me recently, it's almost like we can hardly interact without her putting up a wall and berating me. I'm sure that a good deal of it is due to her guilt and frustration with the situation, but I can't help feeling like the person that I am to her right now is contributing to this. She recently told me that she felt I was in denial about what is going on between us, to which I responded that I was aware of how she felt, but that we had agreed that we wouldn't allow this to make or break us (something she said while she was trying to manipulate me into "letting" her go to see my cousin). She also doesn't trust me and I have no doubt that she's afraid of me, and I think she's angry about that. I know that I shouldn't concern myself with how she is feeling because I can't change it, but I think I might be able to aleviate some of the mistrust. I need to have a heart to heart with her to let her know that I don't want to make things any worse, and that I'm not going to create more drama - because I'd rather have a nice time with her and be more comfortable. This constant venom is really making it difficult to ensure good interaction. Does this sound like a bad idea? I don't want to flounder, or sound wishy-washy, but I also don't want to cause more undue strife.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
R talk is R talk. I know it feels like you should do this, but my only concern is that she already knows all you are going to say and doesn't really need to hear it, repackaged or not.
We hear all the time that the WAS WILL GET MAD when we do these things because you are NOT falling nicely into their idea of how you should be handling this. You are NOT angry all the time. You are not sulking, waiting by the phone for her to call. You are NOT begging, pleading and talking about the R all the time. You are simply choosing to address YOUR concerns and give her the time and space she's no doubt asked you for. In the end, if she hangs her hat on anything, let it be that.
You probably want to say something like "Honey, I'm only doing what you asked me to do and in order to do that, I have to start turning my efforts inward. This is VERY hard for me to do, but it's necessary for me not only for the heath of any relationship WE may have in the future, but beyond that, any relationship I may have with anyone else, romantic or otherwise. This whole thing has taught me that I CAN love you without having to control you. That's all I am trying to do and it goes against every fiber of my being sometimes to do it."
That is NOT a script for you (buy I do get 10% of the take if you use it, lol), merely illustrating what I think you want her to know, right? I think she probably already knows most of that.
Most of the time when we R talk, we are not doing it so much to tell them anything, it's because somehow we think they'll react in a different way THIS time we tell them all the same things than the last time. If we just put the proper emphasis on WHY we are doing it rather than WHAT we are doing, she'll understand and finally come back into our open arms.
It usually doesn't happen that way, and BTW, the definition of insanity, as I hear it often said, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The fact is that you are alone on this journey for the time being. You COULD talk to her, and it COULD be a positive experience for you. Most of the time it won't be, but if it has to happen, please make sure you are not saying the same things to her you've said 20 times before. She knows you love her. She knows you want her back. She knows you hate the affair, and by now, she knows you're not going to try to force an end to it.
I am passionate about this because I am a talker. I am a writer. I LOVE to communicate and as you can tell by my posts, I often do it TOO much. Don't fall into that trap. Let your actions speak for themselves and be confident in your own ability.
Too late - I went ahead and had the talk at lunch. I told her that I have been really introspective in the past few weeks and that I have realized that I have been controlling. I have realized that this is not someone that I want to be. I have always let her be who she was, and in the face of this, I have acted in ways that I'm not comfortable with. I know some of you are going to be somewhat upset with this decision, but I have been laboring over it for some time. I essentially lifted my ultimatum because I don't want to attempt control - and if it is her decision to do this, I want it to be hers alone. I listened and accepted that she felt that things were not going to work out between us - I told her that I was not going to give up hope that it would until we were done - and she told me that the fact that I would let her go seemed to her to be the only way she would consider working through things. I know it's strange and a bit backwards, but she is in control of this ship now, and she needs to know this. I, however, have a great deal of work to do on my own. We ended up agreeing that we would be friends again for as long as this lasts both for our son and ourselves. She ended up saying that now it would probably be that much harder to go because of her guilt - isn't that interesting? I feel like what I've finally done is I've given her the respect that I'd taken away when this all started. I respect her, just not her actions - and that line gets very fuzzy when the pain comes into play. I don't want her to feel that she can't come back to me because I don't respect her - so I have to TRULY give her the choice, because it is her life. I just hope that I can maintain this perspective, because I feel like I need to keep justifying things to myself even now. The fact is, however, that I knew there were consequences to my actions, and I have decided to act and accept whatever consequences there are. I know that this action HAS liberated ME from a position I wasn't comfortable being in, even though it may have had its benefits.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
You know what? Sometimes when I disagree with someone the most in these sitches, it's because they spend SO much time and energy focused on what their WAS is DOING TO THEM. Sometimes I don't see that as the issue, but I always feel it. I rebel against that SO hard because I realized early on in my sitch that my W did not EVER get the respect she deserved from me and my "letting her go" was the ultimate, and maybe the last, way I could give her that.
I am really glad you came to that point in your sitch. I know not everyone can get there, nor should they. It's not the right thing to do for everyone, but for me, and maybe now you, it IS the right thing to do.
By letting go of the "look what you're doing to me" part, you are finally getting the point that she isn't doing ANYTHING TO YOU, merely choosing a path that is different from the one you would like. That sucks for sure, but it really opens our eyes to the idea that for the most part, marriage vows or not, well adjusted (not to say W is or is not), or really, self-aware, self-confident people need to WANT to do something and usually compelling them to do so will backfire.
I know for me, this was a HUGE revelation. I always thought "well, we're married so I don't really have to worry about anything anymore." and I let my body, mind and passion go out the window. I KNOW where I went wrong and I am on the path to trying to get my W to WANT to be with me again. I think this is where you are too.
As you can tell, things are not over between you and W, and this step, finally letting her go, may be the thing that helps more than hurt, and BTW, had I known you were going to say these things, and that you had not said them before, I would probably have agreed with the talk.
I think you did fine, just now comes the equally hard work of following through, letting go and grabbing hold of yourself in the process.
I thought that I had understood that she wasn't doing anything to me - in fact I said this to her months ago - but implementing change, turning knowledge into action has always been a weak point for me. You're absolutely right that I want my W to WANT to be with me. I did the same thing in my M you did, just accepted that we were M and never thought about working at it (I always thought our expectations were realistic and the really good aspects of our R outweighed the bad), or never really thought it was something that either of us could want or want out of. This is my wake-up call, and the most tragic thing in all of this is that I never saw this until it was too late. Sure, there were signs that my W wasn't all that happy, but I always attributed it to something else. We always thought we had something special, something unique together, and now my W has opened her eyes and realized a lot was wrong, and it has been for some time. The empowering thing is recognizing the same thing, just approaching it from a different angle.
I have read too often that all the justifying a WAS does will allow them to recreate the M, to reframe it in a different light - one that allows them to continue in their path. I think this allowed me to dehumanize my W, to think of her as crazy - in fact, she told me that I made her think she was crazy. In some ways I think she is - or rather her decisions are. The idea that smashing up the A will leave the WAS with little option other than reconciliation was something hard to overcome. I have no doubt that unless the WAS WANTS to work on the M, there's little to no benefit to them returning - because there will likely be that much more resentment piled onto whatever issues there were beforehand.
I guess now I'm truly starting to accept the situation for what it is, and it scares me to death, but yet I have a certain peace and calm in my resolve. I hear what my W says about me and the M and I understand that it is her reality. Just because my perspective is different doesn't make her wrong. I think I've begun to believe this and it is somehow empowering to know this, to validate it and to accept it and still believe in my positive outlook. The fear that's there, attributable to what's at stake, is something I can control, but it's also important to acknowledge for me because it ceases to be such a motivating factor once it is accepted.
Now, the next thing that I'm concerned about is that I have made it very clear to my W that I am going to stick this out and it will be her decision. Michele talks about the fact that when you have 1 ambivalent partner, if the other is stuck hard and fast on the idea of fixing everything and is consistently optimistic, then the ambivalent one tends to give up on what hope they did have. I don't want to cause this dynamic, but I have a feeling that I've set it up to some degree. I have voiced that I don't know if it will work, and that my W may well be right that we aren't good for each other, but I'm holding my ground. I guess from here on out, I have to keep my mouth shut and maintain my optimism for myself, and myself only.
Ok, enough rambling . . .
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
I've been feeling liberated ever since I had the conversation with my W that I did yesterday. I had a long conversation with my Ws good friend last night, and it was amazing - I felt like I was talking to my W. She had all the justification for everything down pat, and she sounded like she believed in the fantasy too. I actually really enjoyed the conversation because I could respond to things in a more open and honest way than in the past when talking to my W. It was amazing because I was accused of enabling my W's behavior - pre-A - that lead to her maintaining her depression. I don't know how I really feel about the enabling thing, because I don't know much of anything about it. But I responded by telling her that I felt she was insulting my W by saying that I should have made her someone better than she is now. She responded by agreeing that I should have. I told her that my W is responsible for her life, and who she is. She's not someone that I control, or have controlled, and she is where she is because of decisions that she made. I may have supported her decisions, but I didn't force her into them. After hours of this talk, I felt that I had given her my honest perspective on my part in the situation and my intentions. I was not judgemental of my W, at least not to a large extent, but rather I felt I defended her. She did, after all, start the conversation under the guise that she wanted to be there for me - but her intention was to convince me that I was fighting a losing battle and that I was wrong. I listened intently to everything she said and simply, clearly and passionately told her where I was. In the end, my W this afternoon at lunch told me I was crazy, that I lived in a dream world and that I was delusional. I guess some of what we talked about last night got relayed to her - no doubt in the most manipulative way possible. I got a laugh out of that and made a little joke out of it.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Quote: I had a long conversation with my Ws good friend last night . . . . I guess some of what we talked about last night got relayed to her - no doubt in the most manipulative way possible.
Muddle, I think you should strenuously avoid relationship talks with any of your W's close friends or family, for exactly the reason you mention: your words will almost certainly get fashioned into poison arrows that come flying back at you.
I think a WAW almost always feels that every conversation about the relationship with anyone else but her is a major transgression and violation of privacy. Now, of course, to the cheated husband that probably seems crazy, because this mess is the cheated husband's mess, too, and he should be free to talk about it, and the WAW should expect that he will, but it almost never works that way. Talks like this with mutual friends and the WAW's family usually only leads to more trouble and ill-will.
Soooooooo, my strong recommendation is that you pick and choose very carefully with whom you decide to share your situation and that you avoid anyone who falls into the category of your W's family and close friends.
I'm realizing more and more that what I'm thinking of as detaching is sort of a more of the same issue. I have been able to maintain my mood through the wild swings my W has, but I have sort of tried to maintain my space with respect to her, although I have been aware of not smothering her. Hard to articulate, but I feel that despite my attempts to change my smothering behavior, I don't feel that I have really addressed the reason within myself for this NEED. This is something that I have been wrestling with for a little while, because it bothered my W before this and now with all the guilt induced claustrophobia, I feel that it is very obvious. I think for the most part I have been managing my actions well with respect to this, but I know it comes out sometimes - often at the wrong times. I recognize now that this is something that prevents me from being whole, and is a manifestation of the idea that someone else will make me secure and happy. I guess this detaching stuff really is in itself an exercise in self exploration and healing.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Quote: I guess this detaching stuff really is in itself an exercise in self exploration and healing.
YES, yes, yes. Indeed, that is what it is. You are learning to rely only on YOUR inner compass rather than be steered, or NEED to be steered by someone else. That's not to say you both can't be going in the same direction, but rather that you are both going that way because whatever you both want (a happy life with each other) is that way. You're just now getting used to taking your own boat instead of riding with her.
GH
P.S. There's no reason why you can't swing pirate-style over to her boat and pillage every once in awhile, lol...just kidding.
Another thought, along the lines of detachment and self accountability: I'm aware that my W is controlling. She accuses me recently of this, and recently, I know I have been because of the instinctual clinging to someone pulling away, but for the most part, she's the controlling one. Since the start of our relationship, it always irked me when I was asked to do something that she could have easily done herself, and I felt like it was an intrusion into my space. I came to accept that I was not being controlled if I decided on my own that I wanted to do something, but this doesn't change the fact that she tries to get me to do things for her and is often annoyed or angry when I don't do the job she would have done. So, in terms of detachment, I know that I only do what I want to do, but this is an area in our relationship that I am somewhat wary of, and I'm not sure if I continue to "choose" to do her bidding that I'm not doing more damage. I often wonder if this contributes to the lack of respect for me that gave her reason to allow herself to have an A. I have always been the doer in the R, somewhat because she's been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder, and in this respect I haven't been dependant on her. This dynamic is somewhat troublesome to me with regard to detachment because I wonder if what I'm getting out of this interaction is my need to provide fulfilled. I don't REALLY feel used, although I sometimes feel resentful when asked to do something.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
