Muddle's Muddy Waters

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks all for your responses – all very well thought out and thought provoking. I also like that this has sparked what looks to me like a valuable debate.

It seems to me that if DBing's somewhat passive nature can be viewed by a WAS as a form of begging or pleading, there is little to no benefit, with the exception of the benefit to the BAS (as long as the self exploration and changes being made are genuinely for them self).

I am sure that the ultimate point of GAL, etc., is to TRULY lead a fulfilling life, thereby building and demonstrating self confidence and self esteem. Someone with the above does not try and prove they are great or worthy of a spouse's love - they know it. Someone in an A is likely having some SERIOUS self esteem issues, at least in my case I see this as a primary reason for it, and having someone that is hanging around begging for your attention, love and respect in some form or another is only going to play into the inflation of this false self esteem generated by the A. I once saw someone post on one of these boards that the most sure way to deal with an A is to react to it with an ultimatum: "if you want me, then stop, otherwise I'll move on." This approach DEMANDS respect. This is, however, totally contrary to what a BAS feels in the moment, and it is in a sense what is being done to us. I think the best thing that can be done is to cause the WAS to doubt their worth (difficult because they have 2 people after them) and cause them to become introspective and look at their lives with a critical eye.

Now, being heavy handed in itself can be seen as begging also. Being heavy handed without exuding the self confidence to back up the words is pointless. So, there's no doubt in my mind that an important element, if not the most important element, of the position of a BAS fighting for the M is to be sure of their self worth and where they stand. This confidence is the foundation of any good relationship, as well as giving the BAS a consistent direction to push in. If it need be shown in ultimatums, than I suppose it should be. More often than not it’s not about the words being said, but what is being said under it all.

When it comes down to it, the state of the M led to the A, but the person who CHOSE the A is the one who has to deal with it. They have to come to view it for what it is, realize it's a problem and figure out how to proceed. Our big wake-up here is to realize this. We can't control this process, or even influence it positively in any meaningful way. We can, however, recognize that we have as much control over our own lives as they have over theirs. So, no there’s no need to be PASSIVE per se – just understand what you are in control of and confidently move forward with your own life.

Now, I didn’t really address my sitch. I am not going to change my stance. I committed some time back that I wouldn’t allow myself to be motivated by fear. I love my wife and my family, but I love myself too much to continue to subjugate my desire for a fulfilling life to her desire to escape hers in this fantasy. These desires can only coexist for so long, and by moving things along on my schedule, I can be in control of my own life. Freedom can have consequences - even if I'm the one imposing them.