Not to cut in on this great post, but I have a question for you....I just read your post on Damm-Scared and although I agree with some of your points, I think in essence all of this, even if it makes us happy by working on ourselves and teaching us R skills and life skills, is a game to an extent.
I mean, since I am separated, every visit if I so choose, should be thought out so I am cognizant of my reactions to H and to the discussion at hand if it so ensues. By letting go, one focuses on the inner self and becomes better, more healthy in regards to "obsessing" so to speak about the spouse and the R, and puts effort and time into themselves. But I also think that the R is always somewhere in the back of your head, where there are the hopes, fears and anxieties that exist no matter what. How can this not be considered a "game" of sorts? With DB, we all have learned valuable skills that give us an advantage over the confused or WAW spouse. We "use" these skills to create more loving environments, or by helping us to remove ourselves from them or to help them see us in a new light. I think it is a game. Not a manipulative game or maybe a better word would be, WORK. Instead of game, this is a job of sorts, where no matter, we are working for a better way.
This thread has digressed into my personal struggles. Not even about my R. So, it’s time to refocus back onto perceptions.
I’ve been throwing my opinions on game playing on various threads. This kinda folds into the perceptions thing, too.
Michele says:
quote:From Divorce Busting: Sometimes after reading about doing a 180o people wonder, “isn’t this technique like game playing? Isn’t it manipulative?” Continuing to do the same old thing even though it doesn’t work is no less game-like than doing something different. In fact, since relationships are like seesaws, if one person expresses all the optimism and confidence, the other person is free to feel all the pessimism and insecurity. Spouses often balance each other out in this way. When one person’s views are extreme, it forces his or her partner to adopt an equally extreme view in the opposite direction.
Is DBing a game?
Partly.
A game is played against other people. If OR has reached an adversarial stage, it will have deteriorated into a game. A we/they attitude has come out. We’re working at cross-purposes. Isn’t the ultimate goal of DB to cut through the BS and get on the same team?
Sure. Everyone says it’s about you. Not your R. You have to evolve as a person so that no matter how your R turns out, you’ll be OK. This is true but you came to this site to save your R. So yes, it is about you. But it is about your R too.
So. Before DBing, you play the futile games of begging, crying, etc. etc. etc. Didn’t work did it? Then, you start the DB game:
Round 1 (ding) Act as-if. 180. 180. 180. <<ding>> Did it work? Not yet? Round 2 (ding) Act as-if. 180. 180. 180. <<ding>> Did it work?
Etc. etc. etc.
This goes on until you throw in the towel, or you’ve “won”.
I have to say that sometimes, you hafta throw in the towel. I don’t want anyone to think that I’m looking down on anyone who has had to concede defeat. It sucks when it happens, but you can hold your head high knowing that you’ve done everything you could. It’s time to move on.
But. What happens once you’ve “won”?
The game’s over. Now’s the time to really build your R.
Is it time to stop DBing? Nope. Its time to stop treating it like a game and rise to the next stage.
Hey man, Just stoppoing by to see what your up to. I am really into the perception thing and believe it is as huge to progress as communication is. I suppose they are both intertwined. I think you really got it together my friend, and serve as an insperation to many of us. Along with how others perceive, how we give our messages has to play a role in that perception. Like the person who keeps trying the same thing over and over again we have to find new ways to express ourselves so that perception is concewived as what we as the sender intended. I believe in one of the books there is a blurb about changing our communication medium. How much do you think this can effect perception.
Is it time to stop DBing? Nope. Its time to stop treating it like a game and rise to the next stage."
I assume you are starting out at that next level when both partners are satisfied with things as they have pregressed through that level? In other words, both spouses must 'agree' to "....really build your R." and not just go along as if nothing ever happened?
I hope I'm not taking the defeatist attitude here, and I know how good I got it, but the little voice in my head still talks to me, sometimes on a daily basis, and I think in some ways, holds the real key to me getting to that next level - and believing I belong there.
I don’t think it’s necessary for both partners to be satisfied with the progression. At least not at a conscious level. I’m not completely sure that my W wants to “work” on OR. However, I’ve made a conscious effort to stop the game playing. She noticed it too.
quote:Originally posted by ANS December 14, 2001 01:52 PM onBringing the Walls Down with a Teaspoon (Page 2): I brought up the control issue. Told her that I read somewhere that marriages often come to a point where they are characterized by a struggle for control. I don’t want OR to be like that. I told her that’s why I’m making such an effort to not be controlling. I mentioned the occasion when she told me I was a controlling person. W denied having said that, so I quoted her: “You’re a controlling person, and always have been.” She thought for a bit, and had to admit that this was the way she felt. She also noted that neither of us has used “emotional blackmail” for quite awhile.
So, somewhere along the line, we stopped playing the emotional blackmail “game”. She didn’t notice it until I brought it up, but the finger pointing had stopped.
So. Where does that leave me? I’m still solo-DBing, but W is more receptive to it – without game playing.
Dar,
I got a question for you…
True or False. A person hears only what they want to hear.
Good one Greenbar. But I think the answer is false.
A man hears what he expects to hear.
And, I think that's why changing someone's mind by words doesn't work. That's why we have to change their perceptions thru actions, and that's why it takes so long for them to notice changes.
It takes a long time for the perceptions (and therefore the expectations) to change.
