We are alike more than you can know. I have posted this on my own thread as well because I really feel it applies to both of our situations:
What is this thing called control?
Many of us here have been accused of being controlling but I am convinced that it is a catch-all term we tend to use because we don’t want to face the real issues. When we are too weak in our convictions to stand up for ourselves we say we are being controlled. When we are so headstrong that we refuse to accept compromise we say we are being controlled. When we are forced by circumstances to accept something we think we do not wish to accept we say we are being controlled.
When my walk away wife accuses me of being controlling I try to evaluate my actions and look at the facts. Was I controlling her actions when she filed for divorce? No, it was exactly opposite of what I would have allowed if I were controlling the situation. Am I controlling the situation when I ask for sex and she refuses? Am I controlling her refusal to reconcile? Do I control her refusal to seek therapy? No. If I were in control, things would happen as I wished them. Apparently if I am such a controlling person, I am not very good at it.
More often than not we only look at the issues from our own perspective. On the other side of the coin, has she really gained any measure of control by assuming a contrarian position against anything I say or do? Would things have been different if I had approached everything from a different perspective? Been less demanding? Tried to find a route to compromise? Been less headstrong?
When we attempt to force anyone to do anything against their own will, are we really placing ourselves in a position of control or does the animosity and defensiveness we receive in return actually weaken us?
Accusing the other person of being controlling seems only a lash-out at ourselves for feeling out of control…for not having a good enough handle on ourselves…on our own emotions…on our own perceptions to be confident enough to accept change, compromise, and new directions in our lives.
As you say ANS, perception is everything. If we look at an assignment as drudgery we might feel that we have been controlled into doing something against our will. If we turn that perspective around and look at the same assignment as an adventure, we might perceive it to be exciting and fulfilling. Perhaps being controlling is not such a bad thing if we use it internally to attempt to manage our own perceptions.
Throughout my life I have also struggled against depression. But over the years I have come to recognize various patterns which seem to ultimately lead me to the depths. What we now call depression used to be called “feeling sorry for yourself.” We feel out of control. However, I have found that if I try to remain vigilant and attempt to recognize these feelings when they begin to arise, I can sometimes head them off by changing my perspective.
Does it always work? No. Sometimes the feelings are so strong that they overcome me. I have even told myself that things are so bad I deserve to be depressed. What a slippery slope. But I have fallen down it often. And, I am quite convinced now that there are no redeeming aspects in doing so. It doesn’t purge my feelings. It only makes whatever I perceived as a bad situation even worse. Can I always prevent it? No. Can I always try? Yes.
The philosophy of doing a 180 can apply to the individual beginning to feel depression as well as to the couple wishing to reconcile. Choose an opposite reaction to each situation. Attack it from a different perspective. Change your perception.
Keep positive, my friend. I have been where you are and have no guarantee that I won’t see bottom again. But work from the perspective that when that when life deals you a load of lemons, sometimes the only thing you can do is make lemonade.
Well pooh on you And I'm going to give a reminder anywho (but no soap box talk) Karate does travel- maybe not classes- but you know what you know already- practice and keep the PMA flowing. You telling me about your karate helped me a great deal and I "practice" often.
Okay done. Hang in there Andy.
Laurie
PS- (One bit of soap box advise) Let go of the fear.
Andy, aren't we all sick and tired of being tested? Sometimes I feel like saying,"For God's sake, go test someone else for a while. I'm tired of this!!!"
************************************* Ironic. W complained that I was controlling. I now have no control over my life.
************************************* Sure you do Andy. You have control over the obsessive thought about your W and R if you choose to. Try something different on this trip. Make up your mind that it will be fun and that you will not obsess about W. Make it happen.
You have a whole lot of stuff you have control over. Stop giving control to her. This is the same thing she did for years. Now you know how it feels.
Take control of your happiness and stop waiting for W to return to who she was. Let her live her own nightmare.
Don't head back into the gutter bud. We both know that depression is not a solution to anything. It is hopelessness. It is a sign that a change is needed.
Lotsa good advice here. But I think people are making some assumptions about what I’m going through right now. Of course you’re all basing your assumptions on what I have posted, but I probably haven’t been as clear as I would have been if I was in a better mood. So, I’ll try to explain.
greenbar,
I agree completely with your analysis of control where it concerns controlling or being controlled by another person. In most cases, we do have a choice whether or not we allow ourselves to be controlled. And when we allow ourselves to be controlled, we are in a victim mentality. This is no way to regain the control we think we have lost.
I also agree with you and the others that true control is more a matter of managing our own perceptions.
quote:Originally posted by greenbar: Throughout my life I have also struggled against depression. But over the years I have come to recognize various patterns which seem to ultimately lead me to the depths. What we now call depression used to be called “feeling sorry for yourself.”
What is now referred to as major depression used to be called “nervous breakdown”. I think the old terminology is more accurate. Major depression is a loss of control over situation, and even your own thoughts. It really is. It really is a complete breakdown of your thinking. Can you prevent it? Yes and no. I can’t do it without medication. Medication can keep it down, but PMA is required to take it further.
And yes, Laurie. Karate helps too. And though I didn’t mention it, I do intend to take my karate with me. Let go of the fear? I’m trying, but it’s fear of the unknown. I know how things were in the past, and it was awful. I don’t know if it’ll be any better this time around. We’ll see.
quote:Originally posted by KentS: Sure you do Andy. You have control over the obsessive thought about your W and R if you choose to. Try something different on this trip. Make up your mind that it will be fun and that you will not obsess about W. Make it happen. You have a whole lot of stuff you have control over. Stop giving control to her. This is the same thing she did for years. Now you know how it feels. Take control of your happiness and stop waiting for W to return to who she was. Let her live her own nightmare. Don't head back into the gutter bud. We both know that depression is not a solution to anything. It is hopelessness. It is a sign that a change is needed. Now what is that change gonna be?
You said a mouthful, Kent. I think I can honestly say that I no longer obsess about my R, though when the going gets tough, the outstanding issues do make things harder.
Yes, I have a lot of stuff under my control. I have to say that W and I aren’t in so much of a control struggle right now. The control I give her is given of my own free will. I am not a victim.
I am not waiting for her to return to who she was. In fact, she has returned to who she was in a lot of ways. The person she apparently became was in reaction to her perception of me controlling her. She is much less reactive, and therefore more able to let me into her life. Her nightmare is my nightmare. We’re on the same team now.
But here is much this is not under my control. I cannot cure my son’s handicap. In the current job market, I cannot change jobs to one that doesn’t involve travel, and I cannot refuse the travel in my current job. I think Nicole said it well in my last thread:
quote:Originally posted by nic29marcus294ever January 10, 2002 03:23 PM onBringing the Walls Down with a Teaspoon (Page 4): Andy - sounds like more progress. The two of you sound so tired...I am almost wishing you both could go away for some R&R. Maybe also the stress of your S, along with other factors, has caused you both to move away from each other. I am crossing my fingers for you both. It just feels to me that more of life got in the way with you two, not major crisis's such as affairs and the like.
Life is getting in the way!
What’s the change gonna be? I don’t know yet, Kent. Of course, I’ll make the best of things. Of course, I’ll try to change my attitude. But I don’t know how easy that’ll be. I have to wait to see what opportunities arise.
The only thing I do know is that I will miss my family. Weekends are so busy, that opportunities for family activities will be few. I’ll make opportunities where I can, but I’ll just have to wait and see how much I can do.
Just checking in to see what's happening with you and I see a lot!
You've given me a lot of positive information on my thread, and I wanted to share something with you that struck me as I was reading one of your comments:
I know how things were in the past, and it was awful. I don’t know if it’ll be any better this time around. We’ll see.
Isn't that something that our spouses are thinking or saying about our relationships? They are afraid to be in the same spot in the future, right? Maybe you need to DB yourself...I am sure it will be hard, but keep a PMA..write down your goals and challenges and see what you can do.
Just my 2 cents worth.
FS
ps/ I started a new thread under newcomers, please stop by when you get some time.
Thanks, FS. WRT the job, I don’t even have a clue what they want me to do. From what I’ve heard, they probably don’t either. So, I cannot write down goals and challenges. On the personal front, I simply do not want to be there. I want to be at home. In the past, I’ve always taken the position that the project will end in x weeks. Then I’ll be home again. However, I’ve learned from experience that whatever they tell me will be the length of my tenure, it’ll turn out to be a lie.
At this point, the only thing I can think of is to just keep it out of my mind as much as I can. When it does happen, I’ll just have to keep my eyes and mind open for ways of making myself happy despite everything.
My dad did a lot of traveling during my childhood...worked for the phone company and was gone for months (year was longest) He did the back and forth thing on weekends. He also suffered from a serious depression for a period of time. I asked him how he managed it all...
Possible PMA solutions - have the family visit YOU. Difficult I'm sure, but not impossible? Set up some activities before you leave for the family calendar. (Also will give you something to look forward to for the week) Staying at a hotel? Make use of the gym. If you are concerned about W, make an appt for her to have a massage or time for herself. (Hire babysitter for an hour or two each week you are gone)
These are things my parents did when my dad traveled. It worked for them so I pass them on to you in hopes it will give you some ideas
And I'm going to give a reminder anywho (but no soap box talk) Karate does travel- maybe not classes- but you know what you know already- practice and keep the PMA flowing. You telling me about your karate helped me a great deal and I "practice" often. 
