Ok, well too late (sorta). She just called. That was AFTER her mother called ME to ask me to call W to ask HER to call mum...get all that. Her mother had tried to get in touch with her and failed as well.
Anyway, to WCW, yes, I KNOW my W has real phone issues. I have been with her and she grabs her phone, only to see that there are a couple missed calls. I know she doesn't have it on vibrate or anything. When it's in her purse, it just doesn't ring very loud. Also, her phone is a piece of crap and she needs to get it replaced (it has actually been recalled) so yes, it is VERY possible she was just having "issues".
Now, back to W's call. Here it is...
W: I'm sorry. I didn't know you were coming over to meet me. I thought when I told you we weren't eating yet, you said "ok" that you were NOT coming. You didn't have to get all angry and rude. M: I was angry, but not rude. I was just frustrated that I couldn't get ahold of you. Where were you in the mall? W: We were in store x around that time. M: I went in store x and didn't see you. I also went in stores y & z too. I walked around for a while before giving up. I just thought we had plans and your phone wasn't working. W: No, I just didn't hear my phone. I now see my mom called too. As for the dealership, I was not expecting them to call until after 2. I wasn't expecting ANYONE to call since I didn't think you were coming. Sorry you wasted your time. M: Ok, fine. Did you get to eat? W: Yes. M: Ok. BTW, did you see all that stuff they put in the middle of the mall (SLAP AWAY EVERYONE). W: No, what do you mean? M: The kids stuff. You didn't see that? W: No, I must have missed it. M: Ok. Well, call me later when you find out what time your car is going to get ready. W: Actually I am leaving to go back there now because GF has to go get some things done...
Overall she was REALLY pleasant, which is a HUGE 180 for her. Usually when I get upset, so does she. Actually, I am even more suspicious now than before. She NEVER reacts to me that way. Sure, I was direct and open, but, well, yes, that COULD have been it, but my stupid (SLAP, SLAP, SLAP) test told me something too. She would have had to physically walk through the area I was talking about to get between the stores she went to. She WOULD have noticed it because it was a kid's play area, something that mall has lacked (and we have talked about this) since it opened. She's lying. I am almost sure. Her tone and approach suggested it. Her "leaving now" to go back suggested it and her "not knowing" about the new play area suggests it.
What do I do now? Go back to the "old" totally mistrusting, detaching, full-on affair DB mode? I don't feel that's right. I feel like I committed to honesty and directness and to "earn" my way back to being totally unsure of her and her words, I have to directly ask her about my suspicions. IF she refuses to answer, or lies to my face, then what.
She SAID she was going to be honest. At the end of this day, is it wrong for me to hold her to that? Is it wrong of me to ask her more about today and reveal my suspicions? She probably already knows what I think. Is it wrong to just be open about it?
I am really confused right now. I actually WANT to be slapped into reality. I WANT to be wrong. I don't WANT to be right about any of this but I DO want to move past it, one way or the other.
Sorry to keep going on. I am playing a mighty game of ping pong with myself. I feel like I am self-sabotaging this whole thing. I feel like my feelings are getting in the way of rational thought and that I am still mighty prone to doing something stupid, like making ultimatums when I get home. I am so tired of this. I don't want to give up at all, I just want to know what the right thing to do is, and for the longest time, I have. Now, I don't know. I don't even know that it would be wrong of me to snoop and look at her "calls made" to see if she's called him recently. She says she doesn't call him at all. I KNOW she could be calling him and it NOT mean what I think it does, but then again, I think maybe I am in total denial about where things stand.
I feel SO irrational right now and I hate it. I HAVE to control this but at the same time, I don't want to deny my feelings either. I am SO freaking confused.
Part of me hopes this is all in my head and the other part knows that if that's the case, I am almost back to square one. What do I do.
I am good at giving you all advice because standing back, far away from your sitches, it's easy for me to see what I think you should do. THIS close to my own sitch, I can't see anything clearly.
IMO, you're too upset and emotional to confront her today or tonight. 24 hour rule. If you have an agreement to be honest, then hold her to it, if YOU are ready to deal with the consequences of dishonesty in that conversation. Also, I haven't been following you all that long...sorry for butting with might be a pretty rotten idea in your case.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Stop, take a breather and take a break. I actually think you did GOOD. You communicated in a non-PA way and rather in an authentic way, stating your feelings, calmly. That is good.
Can you take a break tonight. You almost did with the movie, but can you? Just one night. I think many of us are in the same positions you are, and need a little break. I know I sure did.
No, please, I value your input greatly. Don't worry about being new to me. The phone stuff is not something I have posted much about before.
Quote: IMO, you're too upset and emotional to confront her today or tonight. 24 hour rule.
Ok. I can try, but I think she will confront ME about it at some point this evening. Even then, back off?
Quote: If you have an agreement to be honest, then hold her to it, if YOU are ready to deal with the consequences of dishonesty in that conversation.
We do have that agreement. It was put in place when I asked her point blank if I could count on her to be honest with me after she confessed a LOT of details about her affair, including the specifics of when she was dishonest (or at least SOME of the specifics). She seemed like she wanted to come clean so I asked her if I could count on that kind of honesty going forward and she said absolutely yes. I agreed at that point to try to be open with her as well.
That's where I am really getting confused. I want to be open with her but what I am feeling is clearly at least SOME percentage paranoia and could be ALL paranoia for all I know. If it is, then pursuing it much farther is only going to worsen my situation.
Thank you WCW for helping. You really have. Please, post early and often.
As for me, I am just feeling all kinds of things right now. I am just upset at a situation that I likely CANNOT know the truth about so I am forced to either trust W or let it go...or stew on it and make a decision on what I DO know, which is VERY little.
I don't feel powerless, or victimized, just weary and confused. I have options but which one to do?
I just keep thinking over and over again that IF she wants to show me she's working on "us" then she should be willing to do SOMETHING other than simply take in air in our house.
These kinds of thoughts are almost SURELY responsible for my current suspicions. Nothing going on between us+unaccounted for time=affair. I know I am probably wrong, but I have that same feeling in my gut I did for all those months. It sucks.
Thanks. Yes, I may be able to take a break, but I have a TON of stuff to do at home that really can't wait (took the weekend off from "home work"). I planned on getting a lot done tonight. Problem is that I will be home all night and that may be bad.
I just want her to reassure me. Is that wrong?
I also feel like if I wait until tomorrow (which she won't let me do, I assure you, she'll call me on this) it will be more of the same. The last time I faced a crisis, about the prego-test, and confronted her, she said she wished I would have just asked her about it the moment I found it, or shortly after, not days later.
I THINK the right thing to do would be to just be totally honest with her and let her know what I suspect.
What I didn't address in my last post is WCW saying I needed to be ready to deal with dishonesty in this convo. I am NOT ready for that, mainly because I likely won't know it when I hear it. I only THINK she's being dishonest right now. She's pretty good when she wants to be and I am starting to think after the last round of admissions of the affair and it's details, she decided now to take things WAY underground instead of living the dual-life right out in the open with me. I don't know why she would do that, or more specifically, what her motive in hiding that which she exposed willingly before, but she may be doing that. I just don't know anymore and for me to change my behavior, I would have to give an explanation, or rather WANT to. My only explanation now would be that I suspect a lot of things. Is that good enough or am I being a d!ck?
Quote: Only cause we've lived through it. Yes, it's NOT fair that we have to be patient in this mess right now. I am struggling with this now. BUT, it's kinda what this whole M and love thing is about. Also, I created such bad trends in my M, so did H, that I don't know truly if this can work unless I undo them and see if it can work. Ex: I want to see, in the absence of my sins, if the M can work?
I am prepared to accept that it may not. That H still can't see his side of things, and there is his side. I cannot live with someone who cannot see that it takes 2, and he needs some changes as well. But, at the very least, do everything, right now, to do YOUR part. It WILL inspire H's to do theirs. If not, then, there's your answer.
You may as well have posted this to me too. My biggest fear right now is that I HAVE NOT CHANGED as much as I think I have and that I am still the same P/A controlling, angry man I was a year ago...damn!
Your posts, your day, your thoughts all point to tired, confused, and upset. I was going to still encourage you to skip it tonight, but that may be too much of my own personality flaw, choosing to skip it rather than address the problem. THEN - you said your gut feeling is the same it was for all those months. I listen to my gut alot and even though I don't like what it signals me all the time, it's never been wrong. Again, you have to be prepared for the dishonest answers, as well as honest answers that may not be the honesty you want to hear. Think about this, how can you share information during your conversation with her but not be confrontational?
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
First off....lets dispel this little nasty remark right now...
Quote: My biggest fear right now is that I HAVE NOT CHANGED as much as I think I have and that I am still the same P/A controlling, angry man I was a year ago...damn
This is simply not true. You know it, your W knows it. Having the concerns that you have right now is completely justified and, well, upsetting. I know exactly what you mean here. If this would have happened back when you knew the A was occurring, then it would have been one thing. But you two have basically come to terms with that and you both have committed to having an open and honest relationship.
Here's my opinion, for what its worth. Obviously, this whole ordeal has upset you. Now, there may be a valid excuse for why she didn't answer her phone, etc...but the fact is, you have been bothered by it. If you try to hide it, you know for a fact that your W WILL sense it. No doubt. She has told you before that she would rather have you come to her with your concerns rather than trying to bottle them up. Why would you think of doing that now? Calmly and rationally explain to her what your problem is, what you feared, etc. Give her a chance to explain and address it.
The point being, be direct, open and honest with her. Its what she has told you in the past that she wants you to be.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH- stop. Push the stop button. Take a rest. Put on a CD, take a drive. You are being TOO tough on yourself. It's a phase I'm going through now, as well. Once the A is out, and talked about, you start to see that there were things, are things, that YOU are mad about, have issues with. All this time, you put it away, and before that you focused on it too much and were negative, neither is good.
Now, you've put in everything, and get nothing. You justify this b/c of your actions in the M. Well, W had her own transgressions too, and it's frustrating to be at this stage where you're sick of being the one 100% wrong, and waiting for the other person to come around too.
You have been through so much. You cannot be perfect. You HAVE changed, don't let your natural/normal feelings about this change how you view yourself.
So, the order to you from me: STOP BEATING YOURSELF. Recharge your brain. Now that things are leaking out of you and your patience is wearing thin....I suggest you do something. I suggest that you make a plan for some regular 'GH time' just for YOU. Be open and tell W that. That you want to be your best in the M, and will need YOU time here and there during this tense time. That you're not avoiding her, and are really making strides to spend more time with family (as that was a shortcoming of yours before), but space for you right now is what you need for the good of ALL.
Make it a point to go for a walk, sit in the library, take a long drive, whatver floats your boat, at least once a week for YOU.
Now that I'm outta the house, I can't tell you how healthy I feel. I was miserable at a stressful home. I needed this. I don't suggest you leave, but take small breaks. Go beyond PMA, and just get peace, distance and distraction of your own. Also, it helps you understand the A...it did for me. I understood H's need to get out of the house, his need for distraction, his need to be away from me. I feel that now, doing it in a healthier way, but the same thing.
