No, I got the compliment about mama's post. Thanks, and thanks too for the well wishing.
I will take time, one last time today (sure it is...lol) to address your thoughts...oh WTH, you KNOW I can't resist...
Quote: Re, the marital rape comment. When it is suggested that you be more sexually assertive, you have come back several times with a knee jerk response that "no means no." Of course you should not coerce your W into sex. But being more sexually assertive does not entail a denial of "no means no."
Ok, then let me be VERY clear. My W has said no repeatedly since this whole "campaign" of mine started. We have come to points where something more could have happened and she either actually physically pushed me away, or said no. WHENEVER I have gotten to that point, the line if you will, that exists between asexual, as you call it, touching and something more than that, things get tense. When they go over the line, she shuts me down. What more can I do? Cross the line with a running start? No means no, and she is telling my no...for now. She has SAID she will tell me know for now and that the answer will not ALWAYS be no but she needs more time. I THOUGHT I was just respecting that but again, you seem to suggest that she is full of $hit and wants me to do more even though everything she says and does communicates "no" to me.
To clarify a bit, in the past, she was pretty clear when she wanted sex. She WOULD let me know. I think when I posted that she never let me know, I was venting and actually not being honest. She did let me know most of the time, when I was doing something and she wanted more. I have to admit that. I don't know why I said otherwise. I guess I was projecting NOW, into the past. I also think what I was getting at is that she never initiates.
SO, anyway, she knows how to let ME know when she wants something, or at least she should. She is not doing that right now.
Quote: You seem to think this is all your job. I certainly don't think so.
Ok, well it sounds like it to me. It sounds like you are portraying her as a victim here, unable to express HER passion or do ANYTHING in this situation but sit back and see what I do. I know the reality of the sitch is that she may not WANT to do anything, but she COULD and she knows it. Its what's stopping her that interests me.
Quote: Indeed, I think it is a big problem that you are willing to continue in the way you have been without setting and enforcing any boundaries with respect to what is acceptable treatment for YOU.
I agree, it IS a big problem, and has been for a long time in my marriage. I HAS to change at some point. I never really knew it was unaccptable, or rather, denied that it was until now.
Quote: In the last few days, on and off, you've sounded like you will only be willing to enforce any boundaries here if you give up on your M. Perhaps something to focus on is how to not subordinate your own needs in the context of your M.
Interesting, and really the point that I wanted to reply to the most. I didn't really realize I was doing that. Damn, I am guilty of doing the same thing as I ranted about earlier. See, it's hard to take your own advice. Thank you SO much for pointing that out. Of course I need to figure out all this in the context of my marriage. That's why my marriage is doing badly right now; because we never figured ANY of this stuff out and just let it go until my W decided the only way to get what she wanted was to go outside the context of the marriage...damn, sounds familiar.
Quote:
Your W clearly has her own issues about sexual expression. She needs to deal with them. However, she is unlikely to as long as you continue to accept the status quo from her.
Ok, I get this. Give me time. I will get it sooner or later.
Quote: I haven't heard anyone suggest that what your W is or is not (in this case) doing is acceptable. YOU are the one accepting it, not us.
I disagree. You are suggesting that my W's stance of being unhappy but doing nothing WITH ME about it is ok. You are suggesting that she has a right to be passive because it's my role to be agressive. You have said that my lack of intimacy and initiation is a problem here, almost NEVER adressing anything about here. To actually go against myself, I understand that you are talking to ME and trying to help ME take action here, but I, well, I just feel like there is room for BOTH of us to work on this and up to now, I don't see her part, nor do I see you ever suggesting that she do anything but wait until I "get it" or just leave me. Isn't there any middle ground THERE?
Quote:
Anyway, it does sound like you could use a break from this. Maybe you can set it all aside for a few days and give yourself some space to settle down and find some clarity about what works for you.
OT, I have to. If I go into tonight, our traditional "sex" night, with these thoughts, they'll turn into expectations and then all hell WILL break loose and I DON'T want that. I know I need to assert myself but I'd rather not do it from a position of complete emotional breakdown, which is where I will likely be going through another night of "nothing" from her. I am letting go for now...I'll pick it back up later.
