Here's the problem that exists (well other than me being too passive and having DEEP intimacy issues that is) between yours and my thinking OT.
Quote: But, foreplay that never goes anywhere is tedious, tiresome, and eventually depressing to those who want more, and your W is among those who want more.
Really? How do you know that? Ok, you and I ASSUME that she had a PA. What if she did not. What IF she really DID want "other things" from him.
Yes, I know my W wants "more" but you seem SO convinced that she is this pent-up ball of sexual being that is crying out for release. If that were the case, then why the hell doesn't she EVER, and I mean E-V-E-R (ok, maybe two or three times in ten years) show any of that to me? You can say all you want about my being passive but on those RARE occasions when she did show ANYTHING like that to me, I responded with more passion and desire than you could imagine. Sure, maybe that scared her or something, but I would LOVE for HER to show me anything and SHE knows it. To me, her behavior over the years, and ESPECIALLY NOW is much of the same "if he loves me, he'll know what to do" crap that ruins marriages. SHE knows it would take almost NOTHING on her part to incite MUCH more out of me. She KNOWS it would take the slightest sign from her and she would GET the passion she wants. I am not asking for much at all. A little sound here, a little touch there, ANYTHING that would give a guy the idea that she liked what was happening and wanted more. Hey, better yet, actually opening her mouth and telling me what she wants.
OT, I guess what I fail to get, and I think sadly if you are right about my W, it may be the eventual downfall of my marriage, is that I have to be the one to make all this happen without any help from her. I have to do this without ANY freaking sign from her that she wants it. I KNOW that hasn't been the case with other women I have been with. They have at least done the minimum of showing me that they enjoyed whatever I was doing, whether that be kissing them (i.e. kissing me back) or massaging them, or touching them sexually. Some actually WOULD speak up and TELL me what they liked and you know what, they ended up GETTING THAT. The only time W really lets me know she enjoys anything is when we are actually having inercourse or maybe some parts of foreplay. She wants me to just know what she wants, what she likes, and more importantly, WHEN she wants it. Too much mind reading for me, especially right now.
And, BTW, WTH is that? How come in this respect, it seems like she gets a free pass for life on open communication and that mind-reading is the norm. I thought I wasn't supposed to do that.
Basically, I feel like I want to give up. All your talk of rape and such is interesting, but never what I suggested and if that's what you are getting out of what I am saying, I have lost my ability to effectivly communicate. I KNOW there is middle ground. I have tried to go there AND HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN COUNTLESS TIMES.
I HAVE TRIED TO KISS HER. I HAVE "GROPED HER". HAVE TRIED TO INITIATE SEX AND SHE DOES NOT WANT IT, OR AT LEAST WITH ME ANYWAY.
I don't really know how many different ways I can say it.
I am just so tired. You have this picture of my W that I guess is equal parts you/your experience as a woman, PM/reading, what I have posted and the fact that she probably just had a PA. I GET why you feel the way you do and what I have done, all this "non-sexual" stuff is almost a direct result of your encouragment. I thought I was getting it, but clearly I am not. I just can't take thinking about this all the time, and not today.
As I said, I am really tired. I don't WANT to give up, but I can't do this today. I need a break. It's my son's little graduation ceremony today and we are doing some fun stuff as a family tonight. I want to enjoy that and really let this go for now.
If I am taking the steps towards to end of my marriage because I don't want to do this alone and if my W won't participate, then so be it...if she doesn't "have to" participate, or even communicate because she is a woman and I, as the "man" have to do all this (because OT, that's what I keep hearing over and over again, maybe because that's what you are saying and maybe because of my own issues, I don't know), then I want out. I want someone who is willing to be an equal partner in intimacy, not just wanting me to do all the work while she lays back and feels loved, appreciated and worshiped. I want some of that too and I'll be damned if I settle for less which is what I am getting now, and really have gotten all my marriage. Maybe this is all my fault, which is how I read what you are saying, and maybe it's not but again, I am tired and I need a rest from this "whatever it is" I am doing because you're right, it isn't working.
Once again, OT, I know you are trying to help, and I KNOW it's my issues that make me feel attacked but I do. I don't blame you. I know you're trying to help. I really do, but I feel WAY too much pressure right now. I feel like even if I did manage to get W in a "mood" my thing wouldn't even work, lol. This has gone too far and I think I just need to back off and give myself a break.
I WILL keep reading PM, actually make it a point tonight to read a lot, and I WILL keep thinking (eventually) about what you are trying to get me to understand. For now, it's happy time...
I am now going to put a smile on my face, imagine my S6 walking down that isle and getting his certficicate and enjoy the rest of my day.
GH
P.S. And no, I didn't miss the part about how I am doing well with the self-analysis...thanks for that.
