GH,

I have never suggested that it is not important to build in physical intimacy into your R outside of sex. It is certainly true that it is an important component in a good M and clearly your W wants it.

But, foreplay that never goes anywhere is tedious, tiresome, and eventually depressing to those who want more, and your W is among those who want more.

I have also never suggested that you leave work this very instant and push your W down on the bed and engage in marital rape or something close to that.

The problem I have with your strategy is that you are building a sexless marriage. You are making physical touch asexual -- whatever you are doing, it is pretty clear that it is not creating sexually charged situations. At the same time, you are acting rather relentless in your pursuit of sex. You are constantly doing things to try to make it happen without either initiating it or talking about it. Your new physical touch campaign IS pretty much aimed at S E X right now. Until there is a healthy balance in your R, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be unless you are willing to go long-term without sex.

What your W probably would like is a physical R that includes both physical intimacy both inside and outside of the bedroom. She will never know that you will continue to touch her even when you are not after sex until you HAVE SEX and then continue to touch and kiss her otherwise.

Right now, sex is on the top of your mind. No doubt she knows this too.

Look, you are standing by the water cooler in case she drops by, but no pressure, right? Putting flowers on top of it, bringing in frosted glasses *in case* she wants a glass of water. You are not pressuring her though. You have no expectation of any of this leading to her getting a glass of water. Right...

It is the combination of relentless pursuit with the asexual lifestyle that is the problem.

Either be a sexual being in your R or not. THIS DOES NOT REQUIRE forcing your W into anything. This wishy washy never ending patience stuff is getting you nowhere. I am not talking about an extra week for her to recover from the DUI (though I do think that is a bit of BS), I am talking about your general passive approach here. I am really surprised that you are not finding that PM speaks to this issue. It isn't a manual on technique, after all, but on establishing a passionate connection in your R and overcoming the boredom of living with someone that feels like a sibling.

Your goal may not be to make your W feel like all your touch may as well be from her brother, but it sounds to me like that is what you are doing. I'd cringe too if what I really wanted was a firm hug, a deep kiss, groping hands and a stumble to the bed and all I ever got was a tentative peck here or there by someone who seems needy and hurt because I'm not interested in more pointless, going nowhere overtures.

Your thinking on this seems to be very black and white, at least in how you respond to others.... There is a lot of space between being passive and engaging in marital rape. There is a lot of space between no touch leading to sex and all touch leading to sex. There is a lot of space between constant and perhaps unending emotional coddling of your W and not giving a sh*t about her feelings.

How likely do you think it is that any women here are suggesting that you rape your wife, touch her only when you decide to rape her, and give no consideration to how that affects her? Pretty unlikely. Yet, that seems to be what you hear in large part. I don't really know why that is -- perhaps it is because intimacy is such an unresolved issue for you and the extreme interpretations make it easier not to delve too deeply into it. (Yes, *I know* you are trying and you really are doing a great job at looking at yourself and making progress.)

You are doing too much in a very passive way that is unlikely to get you anywhere and accepting too little in return. You are doing things that make you feel bad and rejected. How can that be good for anyone?

Anyway, you are wrong about something you said somewhere. This is not about fixing your W and finding her magic button. This is about fixing yourself and being healthy sexual agent whether or not she comes around or not.

Best,
Oldtimer


Best,
Oldtimer