I am wondering if you are just being more direct/detailed but really saying the same things OT and NM. If you are, then I should just do more of the same because what you are saying to do is pretty much what I am doing. I am ALWAYS ok with her if she gets "pissy", which BTW, she rarely ever does.
Here's a good example of the "new me" and what kinds of things I do these days.
W was on my computer looking at something I brought up for her to see. Actually, we had a SLIGHT argument over something that was in her information for the DUI class. She thought it said one thing, I thought another. I managed to get the form up online and she wanted to look it over...
So, I came up to her and slid around her into my chair. She was still standing back, and off to the side. I turned around, grabbed her around the waist and pulled her onto my lap, continuing to hold her around the waist. I moved my hands up her back and to her hair. When I first grabbed her, she protested but then laughed when I finally got her on my lap. She then read the screen for a few minutes and when it was time for her to get up, I stood up, picked her up and gently stood her up with a kiss on the neck (yea, I know OT, but it's the closest I can get to her mouth that isn't her cheek, lol). She once again protested but giggled when I put her down...then nothing else for the rest of the night, not that I expected anything.
Your point about taking no the first time she "says" it is a good one, but as I have posted before, I grew up in a time and under parents who stressed that no meant no. Maybe I take that too far, maybe not. I know that with all these encounters there is a CLEAR time when my W gets uncomfortable and lets me know that she wants me to stop. That doesn't keep me from trying the next time, but it does stop me THIS time.
Anyway, the chair thing was preceeded by me telling her that she looked REALLY hot in the shirt she was wearing. She was in her night shirt and did look GREAT. She didn't reply, seeming embarassed.
The point is that I DO these things, and maybe she's being affected, I don't know.
You are saying to keep it up, to keep up the physical stuff and give her time to react.
I think you may be right, and also that you are agreeing with OT/NM but I can't help but feel considering all that I have already done, some R talk may be in order to clear the air.
Thank you for your posts. They have given me even more to think about.
GH: you said she protested but then laughed. you had the perfect moment to continue. she wonders how you will react to the first time you to ML, which scares the hell out of her, i know because thats how my w felt. if she says no KEEP PURSUEING, she really wants you to. its her playful nature, the good girl verses the bad boy. i might be wrong here, but what if im not. remember 180's if she says no dont take it as the gosple, do an 180 and keep pursues (without pissing her off) like you did by the computer, she was almost there, yea she protested but she was laughing, if shes laughing, then she is thinking about it, she just wants you to give her more before she says yes. when you a looking for a car, you pull up the the perfit one, the salesman comes out and asked you (can i help you), your first response is (just looking) when you know its the perfit car. she is telling you she is just looking, when she knows darn well she wants you but needs you to tell her its ok to do it.
I HAVE told her it's ok and I have been doing these kinds of things for weeks now with seemingly no change. When we go to bed, she still stays WAY over to her side and the only real contact we have is my back rub, which again, she asks for. I COULD say no I guess, but I don't see the benefit in that other than me seeting a boundary that if she won't "do more" I won't rub her back. I just don't want it to be that way, where I am only, once again, doing for her just so she'll do for me.
Maybe somehow I am just missing out on when that "next step" should happen. Maybe I am missing the opportunites to take that step. I THINK I have tried at every opportunity and even created opportunity where there was none, all to no avail. She shuts me down every time, either through directly telling me to stop or giggling her way away from me, or some other way of changing the subject/moment.
Like I said eariler today, it seems like she is tolerating me at best, humoring me to not hurt my feelings. If this is the case, then I don't need to be wasting my time.
This is why I want to talk to her, to find out if it's as you say, she's nervous, afraid, etc, or if she's just not interested right now. I think it's time to have that talk so I can adjust my actions accordingly.
GH: do me a favor, before you have that talk, try to pursue first. if she says no keep trying. tell her things in a fun way. like MAN IM FULL OF TESTOSTRONE, WOULDNT IT BE NICE TO SHAKE THE HOUSE DOWN WITH WILD SEX, you know whatever, have you ever talked dirty to her? if not then do so, if you have then talk dirtyer. i never did this with my w in our r. but when i started she picked up on right away, lately as i have told you she stares at me trying to figure out WHO I AM, she even ask me that WHO ARE YOU, i tell you it peeked her intrest, almost instantly. i am only telling you this because i was like you gave up too early, then while doing 180's i thought what was the other guy giving her that i wasnt. i decided to be naughty, talk dirty, and most important for me, when i have that oppertunity, i took full advantage of it, know it might be my only chance, i made it my quest to make sure she went atleast 5 times before i was done, she actually went more, so do an 180 gh, pursue differntly then you have been, throw her off gauard, you can do it, dont take no for an anwser.
gh: when you say you give her back rubs, can you honestly say you put alot of effort into it, i mean real effort. her on the bed and you over her, really massaging her muscles, deep, and not just for a few minutes, long, hour long, back, legs, feet, hands, neck, every muscle she has. trust me this does something, it really relaxes them, and the more intense you are the more they appricate it.
The fact that she is ASKING for backrubs is GREAT. Think about it, backrubs can easily become sensual...starting at her feet, moving up, slight grazing of fingers on inner thigh...etc, etc...then telling her to turn over so that you can massage the top of her thighs, etc.
Even when I am NOT in the mood the relaxation and cpnnection established with a LONG backrub can absolutely melt defensive posturing.
I know everyone is different but perhaps "something different" is worth a shot.
GH, I'm going to step off the beaten track here and suggest that you are doing the right things ... except for one: you need to be more patient. I know that you want to ML now (and so do I ) but I think you're doing the right things.
If you want to hurry things up, then I suggest working harder to get her away from the kids on romantic excursions. I'm convinced that your pathway to a fun night under the sheets starts on the dance floor. Take care.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
If you have read the last few days' posts, you know I tend to agree with you. I think I am holding something that NYS (if you were around in his days here) told me once. He said that foreplay starts on Monday. He was saying that in response to me saying that we only ML on Friday or Saturday and usually the only physical contact we had was on those days so W somehow, go figure, thought I only touched her when I wanted sex.
To me, this period I am in is all about establishing sensual, intimate touching OUTSIDE the realm of the bedroom or iminant ML. I know OT has been fighting me on this (or I think she has) but I just think W has to trust that what I am doing is NOT just because I haven't had sex in 8 months and just want some now. She KNOWS I want "some" now. I think she is still hesitant to believe that I want HER now.
That is what I believe I am telling her through my patience AND my physical closeness to her. I can't imagine anyone looking in from the outside would suggest that I am being "asexual" in the way I am with my W these days. I am SO much more sensual and "sexual" than I have EVER been before.
Am I impatient? Sure as hell I am, and like I said yesterday, that can be a BIG issue with me, it always has been.
So it's like this. Part of my thinks that W is EXPECTING me to be impatient and rush this. It's like a test to see if I really HAVE changed because if I haven't, I won't be able to wait this out. I won't be able to give her the time that, yes OT, she HAS asked for. If I HAVE changed, I will keep consistantly touching her, reassuring her that I want HER. I WILL wait because, well, because I can.
Then the other part of me agrees with OT that W is somehow waiting for me to DO something else, something more. I don't trust that part of me because it is a GREAT excuse for me to do more of the same and be impatient, rushing something that I truly do believe will come in time without me DOING much more than I am now, keeping in mind, once again, that what I am doing now is 1000% more than I have ever done before in terms of physical interaction with W.
RB, today is a new day, a better day. Thanks for checking in with me and encouraging me. I am still thinking HARD about yesterday's posts and will add yours into the mix.
) but I think you're doing the right things.