Quote: Unfortunately (and I'm not the first to notice this), there ARE those on this board who interpret DB'ing as a passive thing. They are either unable or unwilling to self-evaluate. They don't really GAL. They don't experiment and monitor results. They don't do 180's.
Yes yes yes. Or maybe they (myself included) do these things, but it is more to see if it is noticed, rather than using them as tools for self-evaluation. I think that the hardest thing for us to do is detachment, and even though we may move into a less reactionary mindset, we are still kinda doing the same old thing.
Speaking for myself, (while knowing it applies to many) it is one thing to read DB and try to do a few changes for yourself, or maybe demonstrate that you've made changes that in fact you have not (that's me), or attempt to GAL by mixing up your routine a little, or maybe even trying to incite jealousy. I think that what is so hard to grasp is the true concept of detaching, and releasing control, and truly, honestly focusing on your self. Without that, of course you want to give up, because nothing changes. Without that, your spouse KNOWS that you are waiting for them, hinging your movements on their actions, so the efforts being made have short-lived results.
From my standpoint, you have every right to have a bitch session, WITH US! In the same way that you are here for so many of us, we are here for you. Use this place as your bitch session round table and consider us your knights. Hopefully you complaining here will help to relieve stress, confusion, anger and self-focus.
I know that I often feel better logging in and "blabbering" all of my thoughts and feelings onto my thread. As my counselor told me, I am a classic extrovert because I process thought, feelings, information by "talking" about them. Honestly, this site is the best therapy I have ever had. From all of you, I get caring, perspective, insight, direction, encouragement, spiritual guidance, and DB/DR wisdom. I believe you get similar feelings too, GH.
I look forward to having your kinds of issues in the future. That would mean growth. Remember to look at how far you have already travelled in your DB journey, NOT how far you still need to go. Be solution-oriented. And remember, the measure of a man is how he behaves when he is at his lowest point. I am often helped my saying and a mantra. My saying is
Quote: BE HERE NOW.
To me this means to focus on what is, not what I wish for. It also means to stay out of the world of "should", which is full of judgment and criticism. My mantra since I have entered the world of infidelity and DBing in:
Quote: It is what it is and I am where I am.
To me this means accept me for who I am now. Stive to be the man that God always intended me to be, but be happy with who I am now. Work to make correct decisions and always learn and grow from poor dicisions.
I don't mean to minimize your struggles, GH. I want you to celebrate the work that YOU have done and the growth YOU have made. Be proud of GH. I am proud to know GH here. I look at you as an inspiration. I apologize that I am neck deep in my own sitch that I don't post on yours more often.
If you only need words of encouragement from us sometimes, just say so in your posts and we will respond.
I have read your words many nights, nodding in agreement, revelling in the truth that seems so readily at your grasp...cutting through layers of drama and finding the crux of the problem.
You deserve such happiness. I wish that your wife could see the grasshopper that we know. The passsionate fighter, compassionate friend, wise sage. I feel as if you have been given a gift to speak the truths that reside within all of us yet are sometimes too scary to look at.
Thank you for being you. Thank you for sharing your truest, most honest self with us. and with yourself.
Somehow you always manage to write the most thought provoking words. This is good reading for all who care to take the words to heart and live by them.
I don't think everyone understands DBing isn't a quick fix to restore the relationship or marriage...if you adopt the principles, it should become a way of life....forever. I also know that in some cases, the DB principles set forth are "more of the same" that led the R to deteriorate - in those cases, sometimes the "passive" approach isn't the best approach. DB/DR tells us that too.
There's also the thread that speaks of "going dark as more of the same. Sometimes people take the words to deeply to heart. If you've been "passive" throughout your R, then 180's would be to stop being passive. How to tie this in with DBing is the tricky part. Become forthright without being pushy - it's difficult to do, although not impossible. Requires LOTS of ingenuity. Sometimes people become VERY stagnant, stuck in the same old comfortable rut. For those people, I suggest reading the "Do a 180" threads - they are a source of some great ideas that perhaps one hasn't thought of...from the simplest to the more complex 180's. Read them over and adapt them to your own personal sitch.
But once again - it isn't all about doing something to get back your lover/mate/spouse. Even though, if we admit it, that's why we're all here. However, by coming to this site, and joining up, posting, reading, learning - no matter what your take is on DBing, it INCITES CHANGE. What one does with results of those changes is up to the individual. Lots of spurned spouses here don't think they have any power - when actually, the complete opposite is true. By finding these tools (and implementing them) to better ourselves, we in fact have gained knowledge, and knowledge IS power. If you continue to wallow in self-pity, well, who the hell would want to come back to that? Think about it.
Lots of spouses here think - "WHY did he/she DO THIS TO me!". Well, if one was to seriously think about it, we could all probably grudgingly admit *knowing* something was wrong with the R. Right? Think about it. Most of us can say that even if the R was going along OK, there could have been improvement somewhere. Well, your spouse sensed that too. They just chose to go about resolving the problem in a way that THEY deemed the right way. Even if it meant breaking vows. When people are backed into a corner, they do what they have to do to fight their way out - they don't just sit there complacently allowing things to happen to them.
DBing is a tool to help change things. If passivity is more of the same - change it. If sarcastic diarrhea of the mouth is more of the same - shut your trap. It's not hard. Well, it's not easy either, lol. But do it - it may be the only chance you have to salvage your R. I don't think that's passivity or being a doormat.
And while we are all here to save our R's, I know one thing that helped me look at it differently was something a little morbid that I'm hesitant to say - but I'll say it anyway. I sometimes thought of SO as dead. Or, rather - the old R was dead - so how would I handle things if that *thought* were in fact reality? The nights when I first found out about the A, the nights I *knew* he was out with OW and was staying with her - I made him dead in my mind. Just not there anymore. The nights all three kids were sick and puking all over me and I knew he was out whooping it up at the Karaoke bar that we used to go to? Same thing - it's dead. It's all dead. Except, HE wasn't dead. The old R was dead. So there may be an opportunity for a 2nd chance. Maybe. So if that thought helps you to GAL - then go for it. If the thought that your 2nd chance may completely hinge on you DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT, aren't you going to try something different? Or, are you going to do more of the same and watch the R disintegrate into nothingness?
I've been going through this for a long time. Should I have given up? Maybe. But I firmly believe that my changes in myself, changing the old behavior that led to the downfall of our R has assisted in keeping SO around. I can't think of any other reason. He's had too many opportunities to completely sever things with me...and hasn't. I know that throwing him out wasn't DB advisable - I still stand by that decision because him living here and cavorting with OW under my nose - well, that just wasn't working for ME. So I had to change it. And, that could have gone either way....could have led him & OW to....a deeper R. In this case, it does seem to have assisted in their R imploding - although I may never know the true reasons. What would've happened had he continued living here? Don't know. However, I made the choice for ME. And I was/am ready to deal with whatever the outcome will be.
So sometimes people here need to adapt DBing to their situation. And not detrimentally. Make the changes for yourself - not with thought of what it's going to do to get your spouse back. If you do that, aren't you just continuing to live your life for someone else? And if you are living your life for someone else, what's going to happen if that morbid thought (death) should occur? Where will you be then? You'll have no Marriage; you'll have no spouse; you'll be standing there alone - just like you are now. Except the big difference is your S is still here n the planet and you have the POWER....use it wisely.
Sorry for the ramble...hope there's something in here that someone can find useful.
Thanks for a great post and discussion. I have periodically come to the boards to vent, and have said things like "I just can't do this anymore" blah blah blah. For some perverted/funny reason, it helps me to hear myself say something so dramatic and dispairing in my moments of frustration. And as you will notice from my posts, not very long thereafter, I am able to look at that and boost myself back up, because the negative, feeling sorry for myself whine just isn't real. It's not the truth. It's not who I am.
I am not giving up. How could I give up on myself, on my truth? On this grand opportunity called life? On love? On forgiveness? On joy? I am here to learn and grow. Yes, I love my H with all my heart, and it is frustrating sometimes when I haven't figured out what to do next and he doesn't seem to be cooperating. I have been thinking, what if every time my H was "difficult" or "uncooperative" in my best efforts to reconcile, what if I viewed each of those encounters as a gift - an opportunity to make me a stronger, better and more alive human being - more clear than ever about who I am and what I want in life?
Life is an adventure and I'm on the path.
Note to all of us who feel like giving up sometimes: Don't leave it there, hanging in the space, for too long. Pick yourself up by the bootstraps and choose again, right now. And for the benefit of all, let us know
This is my life, and I am going to make it amazing! It's already been an absolutely phenomenal experience, and I've got lots of time left still. Good morning world! What am I going to do today that's going to make a difference?
Gh said:
Quote: As the saying goes, "Stand up for something or you'll fall for anything."
I am standing up for love, self-espression and profound relatedness for all people. I am standing up for an inspired life that I love. I am standing up for integrity and joy and growth. I am standing up for a healthy happy fulfilling marriage.
That's who I am!!
I appreciate every one of you. Who are you going to be?
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
If you're not too busy, I could really use your wise advice on my thread in Piecing....
Will do. I am a little busy this morning but I will try to get over there.
Rob,
Quote: I aboslutely understand and agree with you (although I'm not so sure I simplified it). DBing is NOT being passive, it is being very assertive. Making changes in oneself is the hardest thing we can ever do, and by DBing, most of us are doing that. Making tough choices, dealing with our own issues and baggage, etc. I know from my own experience, that is NOT an easy thing to do. I've had to face many tough decisions and look within myself to determine how I can be a better person. How's that being passive?
AMEN brother! That is REALLY well said!
Happysurfer
Quote: Sorry to jump in here, but this caught my eye. i am trying so hard to detach. I can't seem to just give it up to God. I can't seem to just be happy with me. Part of me feels like there is so much unsaid. So much that needs to be worked out. My W said she got over me. How do I just get over this? Go to the gym? I will just think about it. I am locked in my own prison.
You deal with that by realizing that unfortunatly, or fortunatly as you may come to learn, you have no control over your wife and YOU hold the keys to that prison, not her. As soon as you decide to let yourself out and experience life for YOU, for YOUR reasons to accomplish YOUR goals in life, you will start to live again.
RB,
Quote: GH, your thread is the best place for your rant, because it needs to be said, and your threads are the most read on these boards due to your willingness to give lots of good advice. PARob, your post is right on target.
Thank you. I appreciate that sentiment.
Quote: Unfortunately (and I'm not the first to notice this), there ARE those on this board who interpret DB'ing as a passive thing. They are either unable or unwilling to self-evaluate. They don't really GAL. They don't experiment and monitor results. They don't do 180's.
Yes, I have seen this. ANY method can be percieved as passive if you look at it from a certain perspective. I happen to think getting angry and drawing a line in the sand is passive, just a different kind of passive. You are allowing emotions to run your life instead of another person. What defines passive is the act of doing nothing in response to something being done to you. In DB, we accept two things. First, that the affair is NOT being "done" to us, and second, that we ARE taking action, just not the action everyone expects.
Leslie
Quote: Yes yes yes. Or maybe they (myself included) do these things, but it is more to see if it is noticed, rather than using them as tools for self-evaluation. I think that the hardest thing for us to do is detachment, and even though we may move into a less reactionary mindset, we are still kinda doing the same old thing.
Speaking for myself, (while knowing it applies to many) it is one thing to read DB and try to do a few changes for yourself, or maybe demonstrate that you've made changes that in fact you have not (that's me), or attempt to GAL by mixing up your routine a little, or maybe even trying to incite jealousy.
I agree. Detaching IS the hardest thing to do. Also, the idea of making changes for YOU and not simply to see change in your sitch is paramount. You are right. Inciting jealousy is NOT the goal here but I think honestly we all do hope that they feel something close to jealousy when we DB right and finally GAL/detach. What they should feel though is more like wonder and intrigue, not jealousy. We want to create a positive atmosphere, not a negative one and jealousy is alomst always negative.
HH,
Quote: Honestly, this site is the best therapy I have ever had. From all of you, I get caring, perspective, insight, direction, encouragement, spiritual guidance, and DB/DR wisdom. I believe you get similar feelings too, GH.
Here, here. I get the same things from you all. Well said.
Quote: Remember to look at how far you have already travelled in your DB journey, NOT how far you still need to go. Be solution-oriented. And remember, the measure of a man is how he behaves when he is at his lowest point.
This is really good for me to hear right now. I AM too focused on the length of the journey and not it's quality. Thank you.
Grateful Mama,
Quote: I have read your words many nights, nodding in agreement, revelling in the truth that seems so readily at your grasp...cutting through layers of drama and finding the crux of the problem.
You deserve such happiness. I wish that your wife could see the grasshopper that we know. The passsionate fighter, compassionate friend, wise sage. I feel as if you have been given a gift to speak the truths that reside within all of us yet are sometimes too scary to look at.
Thank you for being you. Thank you for sharing your truest, most honest self with us. and with yourself.
much love and many hugs faith
You know, the combination of all your posts (everyone I mean) has moved me, but GM, this one really struck me. Thank you so much for what you said. I do have to be honest about something, and it's no big thing, but awhile ago, I think it was PMD maybe, emailed me and asked if I would mind talking on the phone instead of posting. I never replied (sorry, I only remember this now). What I mean to confess is that I am a pretty good writer in terms of being able to convey my thoughts through the written word...verbal communication is a whole other story, and that is a major reason why my W cannot see this "sage" person you all claim I am at times. She sees the man who struggles with defensivness, anger at times and low self esteem.
The man you see here gets to edit himself so that the words come out just right. Unfortunatly, I can't do that when talking to my W so I am not nearly as clear as I am to you all.
I am getting better and some day, through MUCH more self-analysis and growth, I hope to be able to process my thoughts so that I can speak as clearly as I sometimes write.
as you know i have not been in this forum very long. when i came here i read alot of threads, thought about telling my story, but did not. then when i finally decided to post gh responded right away. the words of wisdom and encouragement almost lifted me right away. in just the short time i have posted my sitch has come along way. i have used alot of everyones sitchs to help mine. i really fell that gh has taking dbing to the highest level and has shared his wisdom with alot of us in here. i even told him that i was sorry for making him my wipping post, but he just keeps a possitive attitude, especially when mine is down, when in reality it should be up because of how far my sitch has come, and gh tries to continue to remind me of that, and for that gh i am thinkfull. thanks for all the advice and wisdom you have given me and everyone in here. you are a god sent.
Quote: Somehow you always manage to write the most thought provoking words. This is good reading for all who care to take the words to heart and live by them.
Thank you. That means a lot to me.
Quote:
I don't think everyone understands DBing isn't a quick fix to restore the relationship or marriage...if you adopt the principles, it should become a way of life....forever. I also know that in some cases, the DB principles set forth are "more of the same" that led the R to deteriorate - in those cases, sometimes the "passive" approach isn't the best approach. DB/DR tells us that too.
VERY well said, and I couldn't agree more. DB is about taking control over your life and making choices that reflect your true self, not the one that has become contaminated over years of bad behavior. In my sitch, GALing, in the sense that we are told to get out and do things on our own, was MUCH more of the same so I adapted the concept to suit my particular situation. GAL to me became re-discovering that which made me happy, the little things like taking time to shoot some personal photos of the kids around the house, etc. Mainly it meant that I needed to re-discover my passion for my work, and my life. To me, GAL meant that I needed to actually FEEL I had a life that was my own and then live it but that did not mean doing more outside the house, just enjoying what I was already doing MUCH MORE.
Quote: ut once again - it isn't all about doing something to get back your lover/mate/spouse. Even though, if we admit it, that's why we're all here. However, by coming to this site, and joining up, posting, reading, learning - no matter what your take is on DBing, it INCITES CHANGE.
Yes, yes, yes. We all started with a common goal of saving our marriages and then found out there was a LOT more to the story. Change indeed!
Quote: Lots of spurned spouses here don't think they have any power - when actually, the complete opposite is true. By finding these tools (and implementing them) to better ourselves, we in fact have gained knowledge, and knowledge IS power. If you continue to wallow in self-pity, well, who the hell would want to come back to that? Think about it.
Ah, and you hit on the dead center of the matter, and to get the soapbox back out just a little bit...
Reading this made me realize the simple truth that some people don't WANT to better themselves. They don't believe that their WAS has to WANT to come back, the believe that they can simply force them to do so, damn be the consequences.
You're right, the true power comes from setting ourselves free from the ties that bind us to controlling behavior. True power is what you make of it.
Quote: Lots of spouses here think - "WHY did he/she DO THIS TO me!". Well, if one was to seriously think about it, we could all probably grudgingly admit *knowing* something was wrong with the R. Right? Think about it. Most of us can say that even if the R was going along OK, there could have been improvement somewhere. Well, your spouse sensed that too. They just chose to go about resolving the problem in a way that THEY deemed the right way. Even if it meant breaking vows. When people are backed into a corner, they do what they have to do to fight their way out - they don't just sit there complacently allowing things to happen to them.
Right on here too! Our spouses got "solution" oriented long before we did. The problem is that their solution probably ended up not solving their problems and like us, they are realizing that certain actions do not solve problems but rather create more in their wake.
Quote: It's all dead. Except, HE wasn't dead. The old R was dead. So there may be an opportunity for a 2nd chance. Maybe. So if that thought helps you to GAL - then go for it. If the thought that your 2nd chance may completely hinge on you DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT, aren't you going to try something different? Or, are you going to do more of the same and watch the R disintegrate into nothingness?
Interesting and a good example of doing whatever it takes to MAKE changes and detach from the situation. I agree, so much of the time people fail to actually DO something different until it's almost too late, then wonder why it took so long to do it.
Quote: So sometimes people here need to adapt DBing to their situation. And not detrimentally. Make the changes for yourself - not with thought of what it's going to do to get your spouse back. If you do that, aren't you just continuing to live your life for someone else? And if you are living your life for someone else, what's going to happen if that morbid thought (death) should occur? Where will you be then? You'll have no Marriage; you'll have no spouse; you'll be standing there alone - just like you are now. Except the big difference is your S is still here n the planet and you have the POWER....use it wisely.
I am standing up for love, self-espression and profound relatedness for all people. I am standing up for an inspired life that I love. I am standing up for integrity and joy and growth. I am standing up for a healthy happy fulfilling marriage.
That's who I am!!
I appreciate every one of you. Who are you going to be?
This is now feeling like some sort of protest speach, lol. Anyway, I love your sentiments and that's a GREAT challenge to all of us, to define who WE are, both within and without our marriages. Thank you for that.
