59 That is her problem not yours. Do not own it now.
I try not to own it but want to work with what is there.
it appears to me that many LD W's have little trouble saying no to sex (and mincing no words when doing so.) Yet for some reason have trouble communicating when they do want to ML
Right on brother. Throw in a BB's pickiness along with my easy going attitude, anytime almost anywhere and there are two divergent expectations/POV that causes me to feel like something is missing.
Even though, according to L4L, it may be the way things are
More woman-speak I suppose. The way I take it is no means try harder sometimes but other times no or reluctance means no?
I think LFL is saying some of the no's melt if the guy is alpha enough.
To me it is a lot like little kids saying they don't want to eat. When you take the food away, then they get interested. The more coaxing you do to get the kids to eat the more problems you encounter the next meal. I take it something like be the pack leader and expect the SO to follow through w/o complaining. Do it and hopefully the W will get something out of the encounter.
The other option is to buy into the complaints and no's and the more you do, the less happy the W is?
But I could be wrong.
FYI. Me not making breakfast for BB this AM has blown over and she is less critical. So maybe not cow-towing to BB's grumpiness earlier has some good results afterall. I guess some women like a little bad boy in their H. I suppose some would call it having a spine.
A good guy at heart but so frustrating to live with. Well, I can relate to BB here on some level Lou. I don't find it surprising that you (a good guy) and GoodGuy59 (a self-designated "good guy" Lol) are so confused on this issue, and frustrated. I think some women find "good guys" to be too supplicating. Also, I think, whether subconsciously or not, the woman loses respect for a man who doesn't seem to have any strong boundaries. This goes both ways of course. I think men probably see women who let them walk all over them in a less respected light. In other words, a woman who puts up with a Jerk and does not respect herself enough to maintain a boundary is just as bad as the Man who lacks boundaries related to his W's continued avoidance, nagging, pickiness, whining, whatever it happens to be. I'm not picking on you Lou but since you asked... LFL play along with me for a little. (my case, I assume yours is different) So you want to spout off on 10 different things that bother you or don't like, act like you deserve more, and I am supposed to tell which things (things that irritate you or things you want) and determine the ones I should ignore, which things I should be able to tell are BS, and which things I really need to pay attention to????? You're missing the point here I think. It's not about A, B, or C. It's about telling me to knock it off!!! I'm really not joking here. When I start being a PITA to my H, I think I really am looking for him to maintain a boundary with me. And when he doesn't, it makes me....hmmm...I'm not sure how it makes me feel other than I know I am testing his boundaries and he's not being the Man and telling me to Back the F Off. When he Does do that, I sure do notice and listen. Like with the getting a job as a hostess. He said no way and I respect him for that. He has a boundary in place. Good. I like'em. In my case, too many chances to get it wrong so I hide in my cave sometimes, don't interact much with BB for fear of getting it wrong. That is like someone saying the stew needs more spice so I pepper it more only to be held responsible for taking out the pepper after the stew is cooked. Hiding, not interacting...these are patterns that you have when BB starts to PICK, which she loves to do. Instead of fixing the damm spice...or the ice cube tray..or whatever...why don't you tell her to stop complaining so much and NOT fix anything when she acts like that. It's not about any of these THINGS Lou, it's about you standing up for yourself when she KNOWS DAMM WELL she is being a real PITA. Every time you backdown, it reinforces her picking over and over again. So maybe I and other guys need to ignore the BS, but which BS is not important, and which BS if ignored takes so many love units out of the love bank, the R becomes impaired a little at a time till one does not want to deal with BS? No! Ignoring it is making it worse. I think you need to pull out the calm assertive Alpha guy at these times and tell her to knock it off. Nothing is going to change Lou until you break the patterns. Just my 2 cents, ok, maybe 4 cents.
FYI. Me not making breakfast for BB this AM has blown over and she is less critical. So maybe not cow-towing to BB's grumpiness earlier has some good results afterall. I guess some women like a little bad boy in their H. I suppose some would call it having a spine.
Hi Maybetime Glad to hear you are getting some insight out of these posts. i am content that if things don't continue to change (which they are...slowly) i will be fine with leaving this R. it will hurt, badly. but it will hurt a lot more to stay. knowing that things will be 'ok' either way... has given me confidence. I could really relate to this statement. When my H and I separated, I know for myself, I really felt like "wow, I WILL be ok if things don't work out between us". The fear was taken away and that opened me up to really asserting my needs more and also my H felt more confident of asserting his own needs. We CHOOSE to be together now instead of out of...obligation/need/fear whatever. You sound like a smart guy who realizes the same. And you have the advantage of finding out before you even get M and have those kids. Just wanted to say, you are doing great!!!
sorry, no advice on the dream issue
Although it does remind me of that Ben Folds song where he sings: The sun's coming up She's pulled all the blankets over Curled in a ball Like she's hiding from me and That's when I know She's gonna be pissed when she wakes up For terrible things I did to her in her dreams
Hello...I have never been in a forum like this and do not know how to use it to start talking about "issues". How do I find more people "like me" dealing with the similar problems? I am a sex-starved wife...obviously the reverse problem of yours, but I was hoping you could give me some direction. Thanks!
This would be the place to be....there are several women on here who are in the same boat you are (myself included...but improving regularly).
I'll start a thread for you on the index page here just click on the link I've provided you then just post your story (with as much detail as possible so we can help). You'll get lots of help here.
Well, I can relate to BB here on some level Lou. I don't find it surprising that you (a good guy) and GoodGuy59 (a self-designated "good guy" Lol) are so confused on this issue, and frustrated. I think some women find "good guys" to be too supplicating. Also, I think, whether subconsciously or not, the woman loses respect for a man who doesn't seem to have any strong boundaries. This goes both ways of course. I think men probably see women who let them walk all over them in a less respected light. In other words, a woman who puts up with a Jerk and does not respect herself enough to maintain a boundary is just as bad as the Man who lacks boundaries related to his W's continued avoidance, nagging, pickiness, whining, whatever it happens to be.
OK, So shoot me for being an admitted non-alpha male. Hey, I always thought that a good guy was a good thing anyway. Nonetheless, I see your point, L4L, and see the dynamics of the good guy/alpha dichotomy in my R and you have me thinking; however, I would appreciate you defining boundaries with examples. Would limits be a better description? Limits to what the man is willing to accept. Rather than boundaries that limit where he is willing to go? Am I splitting hairs? Perhaps I am slow on the uptake on this one.
I hope that we are not overtaking this thread with the alphmale talk.
Well, I think this discussion relates to maybetime's situation so I don't feel like we are highjacking.
GG59 Limits, boundaries, it's all semantics that lead to the same conclusion - as a confident Man OR Woman, these limits garner respect from your S. Without limits/boundaries, you have no R/M "order." No one knows what is acceptable, out of line, detrimental, etc. If you have a S who is constantly taking and not giving, I say it's your own fault. Why would your S think you would "agree" to that in the first place? There had to be some history of that behavior and then a non-existent boundary/limit that was never enforced. For example, let's say your S calls you a derogatory name when you have a fight. If you don't establish that it is totally unacceptable to speak to you in that manner (walking away, leaving the house if they do not stop) then they will Learn that they can get away with it. I recall that situation from my own M way back in the day. My H and I were in a fight and I think I called him a A-hole or something like that. He made it Very clear that we are not going to start verbally abusing each other and if I did, he would just leave the room, house, whatever. I'm not even sure if we were M yet, but the boundary was Clear and I don't recall us getting verbally abusive since then. It's just Known to us that it isn't done. That's the thing with boundaries/limits. After a while, they seem crystal clear and shouldn't need explaining at all. If you feel like your W is not acting/responding to you the way you want/need, then somewhere along the way, the boundaries/limits were either never established or often broken. So looping this all back to Alpha, an Alpha man will know the boundary limit and enforce it. He is NOT a jerk about it, just makes himself crystal clear, in a clam assertive way. That is what is so attractive about the Alpha male. He doesn't play games, he doesn't change the rules, and he is confident in himself and his partner.
yeah goodguy... along with L4L i totally agree that we are right on topic. i realized several months ago that my fiance is simply not changing. she is LD. at least right now in this relationship. after closely examining all possible causes of this and reading SSM together... i am beginning to look more closely at *my* involvement in this LD problem. after almost a year of convincing myself 'it's not me, it's her'... as the title of this thread suggests - maybe it's me.
now i know it's not entirely me. and i know it's not entirely her. it's a complex combination of factors involving her upbringing, my past relationship, jobs, stress, finances, and probably a million other things. it seems hopeless.
so for the time being, what harm does it cause for me to feel better about myself? i used to 'enforce my boundries' a little too aggressively. i have not tolerated her LD from the day it poked it's ugly head into this relationship. but i haven't stopped loving her. a year later, and about a billion nerves shot, i am examining the idea of 'the alpha male'... and re-establishing my boundries in a 'calm assertive way'. it's funny because i have never read anything about this... only what i've read on this board.
some of it is intuitive though. we watched 9 1/2 weeks the other night. i don't think it's a particularly sexy film, but i liked mickey rourke's assertiveness. and it got me thinking... do all women? obviously he took it too far. but not for a while.
and my application of this has yeilded positive results in the last few days. it still sucks when she gets out of the shower and won't let me corner her in the hallway... but i've tried to relax a little more. i think i'm on my way to twice in one week for the first time since christmas...
I guess some women like a little bad boy in their H. I suppose some would call it having a spine.
