I guess I've been at this so long that I get worn down pretty easily. Where once all I did was look for 'baby steps', now I don't so readily notice them. Where once I compared today to 6 months ago, I now find my self comparing today to last week, and hence see little change.
Today was C. I came away feeling down. Sex came up, and I suppose that I accidentally place the wrong emphasis on it, or maybe they both expect me to. If it's mentioned (C started it) it always seems that I am blamed for making it a bigger deal than it really is to me, and there's a shut down. It's very frustrating to be misunderstood, as well as to have the subject of sex almost always become a sore subject.
Anyway, that was not what got me down. At one point, C asked W if she still wanted to continue with the marriage. W said "it's easier than getting out". Great, my W who once said the among the reasons she was unhappy with the marriage because she felt she was just "settling" for it is now just "settling" for it. I don't know it this is good or bad... if this is frustrated fatigue with her internal conflicts and battles or a realistic lowering of expectations. It doesn't feel good tho.
I'm tired and I don't know if I want to go on with this. I'm tired of being blamed for her unhappiness, and help responsible for her happiness. Though today she said that she has certainly noticed my changes, and complimented me on them, in the next breath she says something that essentially says she's not confident it can work based on things that happened in the past. She told C today about incidents from the past and told her this was within the past 6 months... by my memory, there has been no such incident in 3 years.... but it's still vivid in her memory. How do you beat the ghost of the errors of your past? So, W sees positive change, compliments me about it, but is fearful of the past, can't see the future, and finds the present totally unacceptable. But, once again will not end the marriage or leave, nor does she really do anything to change it.
I'm beginning to feel like I'm hitting myself in the head with a hammer so it will feel good when I stop...
So, off tomorrow for a 10 day family vacation... Our assignment from the C.... be playful. I'm tired. W's skeptical. Should be fun. I'll let you know when I get back...
I really feel for you and your situation. Until your W gives up the OM and her "single" lifestyle it can't work. Too bad she just won't "give in" to the marriage and focus on it. I certainly understand why you are tired. You stand on your head while juggling and she still just does what she wants and calls it her contribution to the M. I would just love to reach out and shake her for you. My SIL did this same thing and tried to rationalize her behavior to herself and everyone around her. Your patience is amazing and has kept you in the game but it may take a different tactic to help you win the game. I am not going to make any recommendations but it sure seems to ba a stalemate right now.
I hope you have a great vacation and maybe the time away from the OM will open her eyes somewhat. My prayers are with you.
Back from vacation. We had a good time. W's been goofing on me, we've been having a good time and fun. Slowly moving ahead. Still. Patience.
Next C session on Thursday. I'm going to keep my mouth shut and see if C can pull anything out of W. Let see if we can find out what she needs to begin to "feel I'm in love with Z again".
Yes, the C sessions are something I look forward to a bit too much, I think, because I still notice the I regard them as holding the solution to our problems. W once called it "giving the C too much power".
I've noticed that I wait for momentous things to happen during C, for validation from C. That, or course doesn't happen. Usually I get a bit too needy, or at least need to say things I haven't said, and I feel I'm misunderstood, and then the session becomes about clarifying what I meant. Meanwhile, W can withdraw into what ever shell she has built and none of her issues come out. When I can "withdraw", usually things can come out of her, but often quite "coded"... It's a tedious process, but it works.
I've got to notice that I need to just shut up for a bit, and answer questions, and not editorialize. Then I must listen to more of what W is saying, and more of C's suggestions. I must avoid the urge to get my issues stated and my questions answered, because this tends to mire the session in me alone.
I get terribly needy at times, and lately I've been feeling that way a lot, though I don't think I present it to most of the world anywhere near to the degree I feel it.
Good self analysis Zed Man... ya... you like a good rant I know .... so... getting you to zip up so W can spout off.... is a good play.
AS for neediness.... I would imagine that's more a need to feel loved and appreciated that you aren't getting from W at the moment. That's the tougher one, and I see that as one of the main reasons that many of guys here in particular give up so quickly... that need to be needed, in whatever form that takes. You, my friend, have really given it A TON of work... your patience is awesome... you can teach some of the guys here a real lesson in patience.
SO... get the duct tape slap some over the mouth before heading into your C session... and perhaps things will be a little different. For your own need to rant ... perhaps some solo C?
I know you've been there, but once in awhile... yakking with someone on yr own.. might be less censorious?
Sorry for not posting in a while, but I've been away...
Last C session was a good one. We again got into a "let's beat up Zebra" session, I felt cornered by C, W sat there. C has remarked a couple of times how she's noticed how much we "care" for each other, how we "protect" each other. Anyway, this "cornering" started when C asked how the time since the last session had gone... I said we really hadn't seen each other much, W had been out. Well, the truth was I had been out. Work got busy, and I was not home. Work has been terrifyingly slow for months, so I just forgot that I'd actually been away from the house... a break in the routine. And, W HAD been out a couple of nights... Out generally means out sometime between 6-8pm, home after midnight. Same pattern as from the heat of the affair, just home a little earlier. C homed right in on my resentment of this, even tho I don't really feel much overt resentment anymore. It's just what is... C wanted to know how this makes me feel. Finally, I said it makes me feel abandoned. W goes out, comes home after D and I have gone to bed. Night after night, or at least 2-5 nights a week (it's gotten a lot better in the past couple of months). I told C that there was a time that I KNEW what she was doing from snooping... that I read the recap of the gorey details. (I didn't say this, but it was like reading porn, except my wife was one of the writers, and a participant). Anyway, after months of that, I knew that almost everything I heard from her was lies and deception. I had desensitized myself to all this for sake of my sanity. I had no choice. Then, she said she would end the affair, that she would work on us. But, the social patterns, the nights out, the late nights really changed little. I told C that I had learned to trust, but that sometimes it just crashed in on me, and I got a bit flipant in my remarks. I told C that W still went out, even admitting that sometimes he was there, and to top it off I was shackled to the house as caretaker of a small child and couldn't checkup on her if I wanted to. I told C (and W) that sometimes my ability to blindly trust was tested and challenged.
When I finished, W had a tear in her eye.
C gave us an exercise. We were to hold hands, the one at a time, one of us closed our eyes as the other stared at the other. Then, the looker described what they saw, felt, thought. I learned that W cares about me. Deeply. She said she really wants it to work. She made it clear that she knows it's still a lot about her. It felt pretty good, but hard. Actually, I like the C sessions that feel hard. that make us think.
So, now I've been away for a couple of weeks (talk about trust....). While I was gone, she called me more than I called her, and she sent me mindless little cute notes on my cellphone text messaging. Nice, warm, fun stuff. We had lots of fun chats, even when I had to cut her off and run (Cellphones do have there good points). When I got home this morning sometime after 1am, she came down and sat and chatted. I had been in a timezone 3 hours removed, so I was well awake. She just came down to chat. Nice.
This afternoon, she was going out with D, but D bailed out. W came into the living room where D and I were sitting and said "Well, I still love ya, but I'm off". I spun around in the chair, thinking of course that W was talking to D, only to see her looking at me with a huge sh-- eating grin on her face... She came over to where D and I were sitting, put her arm around me and gave me a squeeze, and gave D a peck on the cheek. (Did all this really happen?!?!?, Naaaaa......) That, too, was really nice.
So, I'm back to watching the baby steps. Two weeks away.... sometimes you have to remove yourself from the situation to notice the progress. Sometimes you have to detach and maintain your distance....
We went to a wedding. Seems one of the SSW has bitten the dust. She got married yesterday. The rest of the local chapter of the SSW, including the OM, was there... (SSW is the Sisterhood of Separated Women, a society dedicated to expanding their membership through encouraging others to end their marriages and join their ranks. Sometimes, sparated Men are allow honorary membership. Even SSW needs occasional Male companionship.) On the way there, we drove past the OM pulling out of his condo complex. W grabbed my knee and gave it a squeeze. I grabbed her hand and kissed it and said thanks, you're nice.
Later, after the wedding, there was another pool party, and when we arrived, OM's car was there, as like last time. I kind of took a deep breath (been reading Deida, and he's really into breathing and "keeping you front open"... it works). W said, are you OK with this??? I said sure, and made like OM wasn't my issue... I said are you OK? So the day went fine.
Interestingly, OM made no effort to talk to me, made no effort to be friendly (he usually does... some kind of fascade or foil or provocation... who knows which). Since I've been being friendly to him, initiating chatty conversations, he has withdrawn somewhat, it seems. Interesting...
Anyway, I'm still backing way off in any hostility toward him. I used to kind of "growl" at him in private -- when we passed in a private hall, if we chanced upon each other in a store. Now, I'm cooly friendly, socially cordial. Like you would be with a vague aquaintance. He is still part of W's social circle, especially tennis. He's still on her main team, thought not her direct playing partner. She still see a lot of him, but I don't believe ever alone, only with the group, and the others on her team are all happyily married. She seems also to be spending more time with happily marrieds, and avoiding the SSW -- to the point of holding them in contempt.
So, here's my wonder, the reason for the post... As I mentioned, she occasionally makes motions to reassure me when he's around. She occasionally askes if I'm OK with the casual contact I have with him. I'd like to ask her how she's doing with her casual contact with him. If she's got pangs, if she sees that contact as a conflict to our improving. If she ever is torn about what her current relationship path and partner should be, and if she would or could like to talk about it. I know this is really an off limits area in general, but in the context of being her friend, I wonder if I open up to the possibility of talking about her feelings here... if I can open up a new level of trust and therefore further break down secrets and increase intimacy by showing her that I am willing to, and can be her must trusted and supportive confidant even in the most difficult of topics... The key is to be totally detached, to be completely unjudgemental and unconditionally supportive.
I haven't a clue how to pursue this approach. I'm scared to death to try. But I believe it could work. Anyone have any ideas???
I don't think you can talk about her feelings wrt OM "as a friend."
I think that when we talk to someone "as a freind", we have to be detached from the situation, and you’re intertwined to much in this area. Yes, a friend shows sympathy and empathy, but they’re not, and never were part of it.
If your W had a falling out with her best GF, she wouldn’t talk to her about it “as a friend.”
D’ya get my drift?
IMHO, this is an area you should pretty much stay away from unless she brings it up.
That doesn’t’ mean that you can’t talk about feelings – hers or yours. There’s gotta be lotsa other things happening in your lives that you can share.
But there are some things that a person just wants to work out for themselves – without support. If she wants your support on this, let her ask for it.
It could also be perceived as trying to prove that you're supportive, rather than showing true support.
Thanks, Andy. Grounding is always good. You're probably right, it wouldn't do much good, but I'm gonna store it away in the back of my mind anyway. Just not act on it right now.
My sitch has run rampant with things that work that have generally run against the "common wisdom". I suppose it comes from one knowing his own situation best, and having to take that leap of faith from time to time. She actually finally agreed to stop the divorce proceedings after a horrendous fight where I brought up the OM and told her I wouldn't tolerate her being with him any more. Another time (later), she simply broke down one day sobbing on the kitchen floor. I went over to her, wrapped her up in my arms and told her how much I felt for her, how much I knew she must be hurting from her decision to leave him, how hard it must all be. I know this hit home in a big way, because she brought it up in C, saying how much it meant to her.
So, though this latest idea might be dumb, the essense of its empathetic nature could be powerful. Maybe I just need to keep track of that desire to empathize and "act as if...", instead of overtly making the statements...
Thanks, my friend. Your perspective it always valued.
![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
( for his throne and reading room??) ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
