BF has talked to an attorney. Ex-w did get his attention. He did act promptly on the matter.
And upon reflection I have to say that ya gotta give his ex credit for taking action when she felt it was warranted. She didn't pussyfoot around and think about "what he might be going through" and soften the blow. Clearly the responsibility was HIS to approach her about the changing financial circumstances in his life, and he was in the wrong morally and legally for not doing that.
But I think she could have taken some intermediate steps before filing suit, like just showing up over here and telling him, "Let's get this settled." Or even saying, "We need to talk about this or I'm going to be forced to go to court." She didn't have to, but she could have.
For example, there is a religious community in my city that got disgruntled with the head minister a few years ago. A group of the congregants got together and instead of going to the board and reciting their grievances, they called a congregational meeting (by amassing signatures) and called for a vote to kick the minister out. It seems like they went from step one to step ten without stopping anywhere in between. When the whole congregation voted, they kept the minister, but now the community is divided. In fact a bunch of people left. It seems like some intermediate diplomacy might have been brought to bear and been more effective in the long run.
Just so, BF's ex might have gone through steps two through nine (even though she was not required to) before bringing in the big guns.
OTOH, in my dealings with him, I've been doing steps one through ten the hard way: 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 2.1, 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, etc., constructing an asymptotic curve......
Lou, those were some great links you posted to the other sex-starved relationship board. One thread in particular caught my eye: For those with husbands with ED . It has a lot of interesting info.
This post in particular spells out and corroborates the info I got from the book "Making Love Again" about sex life after prostate cancer surgery, i.e. that for a man, the "normal" process is to encounter a sexy stimulus/trigger FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY by a physical reaction (the erection or beginnings of one). In the absence of the physical reaction, the man perceives himself as NOT aroused. This post put it well. (The woman laments her husband's inability to articulate the sitch, but I think he does pretty well!):
Quote: I think this topic is difficult for many reasons, but the one that's daunting me is my DH's reluctance & inability to articulate what is going on with his body & in his head. (And then dealing with it, heh!)
He did tell me awhile back that he thinks of sex when his body registers arousal first. Some stimulus creates the first rush of blood, he feels it, and thinks "sex!". And with stimulation, it continues from there.
With the ED, he just doesn't get that first rush anymore. And if it does get started, maintaining the erection is very difficult (and I'm sure emotionally agonizing). So to consciously plan arousal by pill (or whatever) means replacing the initial cues that used to happen naturally. Which is hard for him to do.
What was previously "autopilot" requires deliberate thought & action, which doesn't sound so terrible, but I suspect it's a foreign notion to a man who finds himself dealing with ED after a life of the autopilot method.
Combined with the unpleasantness of Viagra or other chemical methods, I can sympathize (to a degree) with his letting it all slide. Sex just isn't easy anymore. And there are days I'm ambivalent about it myself.
I suspect that the men who get implants are ones who can't accept the idea of life without sex. They will do literally anything, risk surgery, to keep a sex life going.
My late H had penile implant surgery, and we thought that would do the trick. But his perception of arousal was still missing. Remember how I said I had to "unlearn" the connection between his arousal and his becoming hard? Well when we wanted to do it, he would just manually pump up the prosthesis, which did produce an E until you lowered it (and that part was nice-- you never had to worry about how long it took-- the E was there to stay). But the cycle of arousal, physical sensations, moving to the bedroom-- all of that was absent for both of us. God, that makes me sad to think about... It's pretty much just where I am now, too.
There's also a couple of long posts in this thread from a guy who repressed his sex drive in his marriage and now can't seem to find it. Worth reading.
Lil thanks for the link. I read a few posts looking for some options to a regular SL and stumbled on to the URL's in my thread.
It's pretty much just where I am now, too When I read things like that, implying nothing has really changed, it is sad.
Like I said, sometimes I go ahead and take things I want, like sex and affection. I assuming BB is not in the mood but I can do something she likes so the exchange has some benefits for her. Other times I can't do it because it because of her resistance.
I included the finger link, knowing your bf's ick factor but thought some other guy might get some benefit from the woman's information. I know I had almost no clue as to what to do because I think many women won't say what they like and only speak up with what they don't like. I only have firsthand information from BB in this area. She gives very little feedback so don't count me as an expert.
But the cycle of arousal, physical sensations, moving to the bedroom-- all of that was absent for both of us. Gosh, I am sorry to hear that. The TV programs I say about implants never went into that part of the process.
guy who repressed his sex drive in his marriage and now can't seem to find it. Worth reading. I will read it. It better not rub off on me. I am getting there some days.
(If you download it to read, the conclusions begin around page 50.)
Quote: The five myths surrounding male sexuality noted in the introduction to this study were unfounded in the results of this research. According to Doyle (1983), Zilbergeld (1978), and LoPiccolo (1985), the common misconceptions about sex include:
(1) Most men are ready, willing and eager for as much sex as they can get.
(2) Men’s sexual apparatus and needs are simple and straightforward, unlike women’s.
(3) All really good and normal sex must end in intercourse.
(4) It is the responsibility of the man to satisfy
both his partner and himself.
(5) There is a suspicion that other men’s sexual experiences approximate ecstatic explosiveness more closely and more often than one’s own.
It seemed that for each of these myths, there were men who believed they were true and there were others whose sexual experience indicated otherwise. Regarding the first misconception, one man recognized the pressure from outside of himself to be a “sex god”. He talked about being a young, married man and feeling the expectation that he should be able to have sex all the time. Contrarily, there were men who found that they didn’t think about sex very often and if their wives didn’t initiate sex, it may not happen for months. They, too, recognized the myth and felt guilt for not being “man enough” or for feeling “odd”.
The second myth, that men’s sexuality is simple and straightforward, was equally unfounded as many of the co-researchers had never taken the time to articulate their
sexual needs or concerns, but when they inspected them they found their thoughts and emotions were more complex than anticipated. They recognized that their sexuality was
much deeper and more multifaceted than just getting an erection and achieving orgasm. Some men also talked about how their penis was not just a simple organ that arose at their every beckon call. Their physiology and emotions were interconnected in the mystery of their sexuality, which at times left them bewildered and in awe.
A third common perception that all good and normal sex ends in intercourse seems a naďve view of the sexual relationship. Many men in this research described sexual encounters where they and their spouse were trying very hard to create the right conditions for sexual intercourse to happen, but in spite of their efforts or maybe because of their efforts, they failed. At this point, if they could give up having to have intercourse, they would often experience a very meaningful time of sexual intimacy with no pressure to perform or achieve orgasm. Others talked about the importance of “just being there to support one another” while lying together, or “talking about what we love about each other”. <Lil note: Can anyone say "Sex Between the Sheets"?>
Feeling responsible to sexually satisfy both their partner and themselves was another myth keenly experienced by the men in this study. One man talked about men as typically the “actors” in a sexual relationship, while women filled the “receiver” role. Another referred to himself as the “porn star”; the amazing lover who, when he was on
his game, could provide the perfect love making experience for both him and his wife. For the most part, however, these men recognized the immense pressure and anxiety they placed upon themselves when they took sole responsibility for the quality of their sexual encounters. It was this kind of belief that was feeding their anxiety.
Finally, in relation to the final belief cited by Doyle (1983), Zilbergeld (1978), and LoPiccolo (1985) that other men’s sexual experiences generate more pleasure than one’s own, men in the current study talked about feeling that they were not having sex nearly as frequently as most other men. This pervading perception that the frequency of one’s sexual experiences was not the “norm” seemed also to breed anxiety.
There must be something about being sex-starved that makes you really smart and articulate... this ezboard is really, really good, if not quite as deep as this board.
Here's another thought-provoking post:
Quote: I discovered some things during this sexless journey that are helping me to heal.
1. The extreme pain and loneliness I felt from a lack of maritial intimacy was just a glimpse of how God was feeling from a lack of intimacy with me.
2. As long as I looked at sexlessness as something my husband was doing to me - he was not released to heal. The fact is, it had nothing to do with me.
3. When I finally saw my husband as a victim himself (who was wounded and helpless) I was able to start healing from the years of feeling rejected and worthless. I was also able to develop a deep compassion for him. Truly, he was the victim, not me. I was just suffering from the terrible fallout.
4. I began to feel tremendous and overwhelming compassion for him but also a deep grief over my own loss. In fact, I remember the moment when the pain turned into a completely different type of grief. It was a gut wrenching saddness about something that happened to us instead of something he did to me. This was a big turning point for both of us. This is was the end of any bitterness, rejection, anger, etc.. This was the end and the beginning at the same time. It seemed like my full and complete forgiveness was the beginning of his healing.
I'm grateful for a place to think out loud and for the all the wisdom I recieved here.
Quote: Autobiography in 5 Short Chapters by Portia Nelson
I I walk down the street. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I fall in I am lost... I am helpless It isn't my fault. It takes forever to find a way out.
II I walk down the same street. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I pretend I don't see it. I fall in again. I can't believe I am in the same place but, it isn't my fault. It still takes a long time to get out.
III I walk down the same street There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I see it is there. I still fall in... It's a habit. My eyes are open. I know where I am. It is my fault. I get out immediately.
IV I walk down the same street. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I walk around it.
Re Lil He mentions having done Michele's DB stuff-- I wonder if he's been through this board? I did not see a connection to anyone here. I did not see a reference to the DB books or site.
Extremely comical post of the humor thread Liberal Americans going to Canada. Loved every bit of it. Yes, how many "art history" majors does a country need or can they support.
RE Lil's post on another thread. Now she's 82, and a couple of Mother's Days ago we had just about the only deep conversation we've ever had-- on the phone. I've only seen her twice in the last 28 years. (Once when I hadn't seen my parents in a few years, I was on a trip to her state for business and said I could come to see them, and she said, "Don't bother," so I didn't.) She said now that she looks back over her life, she sees that she was a bad wife. And she was. She realizes now that she made my father's life miserable. She wishes she had been different. She wishes now that she had been more loving and open. He died in 1989.
Even with that much self-awareness, she isn't capable of much change at this point. She doesn't fly, so she didn't come to my wedding in 1990 to my late H, nor did she come to his funeral. I used to send her flowers, etc., for Mother's Day, birthday, etc., but she told me to stop, so I did. You really can't get through her wall.
If true and not an analogy or something like one, that was saddening to read. When I read it I thought about how I could help in some little way. If she lived within a days drive.....Well that option did cross my mind but what would/could I do to make the situation better for you and possibly for her.
Cyber hugs for the daughter whose mother said don't bother. I know you said you felt shut-off from her love as a child, I don't understand how this type of behavior can go on so long. I don't understand some people.
I have a short mental e-mail to her saying that for two years I have read her daughters post and have got to know someone that is caring, knows how to up lift others, wants to feel like she is part of a good group of people, wants some more people to value and love her, works to improve the lives of others, herself, and friends, so loosen up and get to know the Lil of today. It would be worth her time and make someone I know really happy?
Thanks for your comments, Lou. No, there were no metaphors in my post. All literally true.
The theme of my life has been to be successful and friendly and say (in my head) to my parents: "Everyone else likes me, why don't you?"
It helped A LOT to have my aunts and uncles tell me that my mother has been standoffish and withdrawn her whole life. Probably part of it was temperament she was born with that was aggravated by some traumatic event early in her life. My aunts and uncles are the MOST loving, fun, high energy people-- I went to my first family reunion the fall after my husband died, and it was soooo wonderful. I think they were all afraid that I would turn out to be like my mother! But within five minutes we could all tell that I belonged with them. It was fantastic. This was my first experience in my whole life of what it means to be part of a family.
There were about a dozen of us staying in this big vacation house-- aunts, uncles, and a couple of cousins. I can't tell you how much it meant to me-- an only child, who had always been the "adopted one" in other people's families-- to find out that I had a fantastic family of my own. My mother had always kept us away from her siblings... she basically wants nothing to do with them.
She reminds me so much of Happy's wife-- a deep down anger and self-loathing that comes out of the dark hidden past and is poisoning the present. I think my mother and Hap's wife have this in common: there is no malice in them except what is directed inward at themselves.
My mother has made a good life for herself. She lives a long, long way from me in a senior citizens' apartment building where she has friends, she doesn't watch tv at all, she reads, walks every day. Given her diminished emotional resources and major emotional handicaps, she has done pretty well for herself. She's settled and I guess, pretty happy.
Meanwhile, I've been in therapy for basically ALL of my adult life coping with the fallout on me. (And attracting men who are emotionally unavailable in one way or another.)
I am getting there some days. 