LeeP - Nice to see things are "quietly creeping forward" for you. I hope it continues!
Zebra - I loved your how-slowly-time-moves analogy: "...it takes a long time to stop and turn a large ship. She's no longer steaming full speed toward a divorce.."
This is SO true!!!
Realizing the time and patience it takes to get a marriage back on track is truly another "art" to master. It's a whole new ball game! And what a frustrating one it can be.
I am 9 (continuous) months into reconcillation with my H and he has been living back at home for 5 mos. (WOW! I never thought I'd write THOSE words! )
Chels -- thanks for the support. My biggest concern right now, in context of what you wrote is I don't "have" nine months. 4 weeks ago W agreed to "work on the marriage" for 3 months. I feel the clock is ticking...
Kent, as usual, you are hitting it right on the head. You must have thought I would never get it. I still need you and JJ to keep me in line sometimes, tho'.
ALTL, Kent is also right about burnout, and I think it’s partly about lost faith, too. We’ve lost faith in so much… our partners – there’s that fear that they won’t “pick up the other end” of the rope if we let go, and in ourselves- that we won’t be ok if that happens. It’s a hard one. I have noticed that (for me) the time I have the least faith (and most fear), is when I find I have stopped looking for the baby steps. H’s and mine, too.
Zebra, Yes, time does move agonizingly slowly while we are in the “turning around big ships” business. The waves get big, too. Keep the tugboat steady. (haven’t started the new thread yet??)…
Chelsea, I keep thinking about what you said a few months ago, that my H was on his way back to me… when it seemed really unlikely. It still might be, but I thank you for those words ‘cause they have helped. Funny how we just need someone in our corner sometimes to feel that much stronger.
We seem to come here most when we are feeling something - either good or bad.
I have been feeling mostly good lately, watching baby steps, but I have expected the upside down days and today is one.
Oddly enough, H has been making a real effort to show he cares this week. We've had a couple of OR talks and I let him help me with a couple of little problems, which made me uneasy- maybe he isn't ready for it. And though it seems like what we're doing is working, I still wonder whether I should be spending much time with him until he ends it with OW.
Aha, there it is! OW is getting to me. He hasn't ended it. And I am worried about myself- that I'll get sucked in to all the bad stuff again- worry, fear, suspicion, frustration. I even snooped today. (holy backslide, huh???) In his email- and of course, it made me feel worse. A glimpse of their relationship and it creeped me out. And it made me wonder whether he's really lying to me? MISTRUST.
I felt panic and anxiety, and anger and I wanted to stay away from him. It's not that anything I read really should surprise me from what he does tell me. What it did was make the situation real (and ugly) to me again, it was a reminder that there's no way I can know what is really going on in him. And that she really is still out there wreaking havoc in my world. Scary.
I realized something else, too - It's a little about winning a war for me. A war with her. I'm not so proud of that.
I am calmer now, and so that is a good sign, the brain is working rationally on this not-so-rational situation. Maybe I need some distance- just a day or two to see what happens.
I feel for you on the OP thing. W has said she's stopped with OM... Except, she hangs in the same social circle with all her "new Friends". Except that she still goes to play tennis with said "friends", and comes home well past midnight. Says she doesn't play tennis with him any more, but the "gang" goes out for a beer after tennis. So he's still around. A lot. Arrghhh.
I want to win too. Is that a bad thing? I want my marriage back.
I don't think it is wrong to want to win. It's the revenge fantasies that come with it that aren't so healthy .
Let's not JUST want our marriages back, Zebra, Let's revolutionize them. So then, your wife's "friends" will wonder what she's so happy about when she plays tennis - wouldn't that be good???
Just nosing my way in here too! I must say that I'm right there with ya baby-with regards to ALTL's post of Oct 29....that could have been me writing.
It is not easy when there is separation. I never faced that for the reason of the A and OW, I faced it because of his deployment....but I sometimes wish there had been. I did not leave him for a number of reasons (2 that look so much like him it makes wonder if I'm really their mom!) but like ALTL says so very well: "I worry that if I really made a policy of backing off, my H might never step forward and we'd just be cut a drift from each other." I have often felt that my H would not 'fight for me', if I had said either 'get out' or 'I'm out of here' I fear he'd have said, well....nothing, and either left or let me go.
Had there been a separation as a result of the A, and upon our rebuilding/reconciliation-I might have been more sure that it was for the sake of the marriage and our desire to make it work again...for me (and I suspect ALTL) we never left or kicked them out, so we were here....in essence 'stuck' wondering what to do and fearing that if I (and perhaps ALTL) DID make the separation decision...H would have just drifted away.
I know, the grass is always greener....and believe me, I do not envy you per se, it's just the tinest bit of a desire to be able to have the same control (and self-will power-you're amazing) that you have at this point.
Keep it up and stay in control of you!
L
p.s. Hey ALTL-I also could have written what else you said..."both of us deny our needs, limits, and goals to the extent that our relationship is less genuine than it could be. I got to where I hardly had any goals of my own, I was accomodating his goals so much." Ever see Run Away Bride?
Hi Lee! Glad to see the "rational" brain is still working! Yup, might be time for a little distance right now. You've been doing a GREAT job of not letting yourself get wrapped up into the situation, would hate to see it happen now.
I like your "revolutionize" your marriage statement!!
What is there about him helping you with some little problems that is making you uneasy?
Your assignment is to go do some Lee stuff for a few days!!
Take care and enjoy yourself, my friend!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
quote: What is there about him helping you with some little problems that is making you uneasy? QB]
It's not the fact that he wants to help - it's the fear that his motivation is guilt. The fear that he is sliding back to OW.
I have had a crisis with my parents again (a week ago), and since then, haven't got really anything secure in my world- it's started the backslide domino effect. Then H and I had an up and down week. OR talks, etc.
Then last night I was trying to call H but he was on the phone for 4 hours with OW. (they do that sometimes)I promised myself I would not bring that up if he called me, but I did (dumb). After a bumpy discussion, he admitted the last 3 hours were about his feelings for me. I know I shouldn't have, but I asked him what the point of that was. I said that it would probably feel to her like he's working on THEIR R by talking about it. He admitted he's in the middle lately, and I admitted that I am scared, and I tried to tell him that whichever R he puts the focus on will become more powerful.
He says he doesn't WANT to waffle, and then he asked me to go over and stay with him and we comforted each other all night. But I'm really messed up today. Trying to get a grip on it.
I don't want my fear to become self-fulfilling prophecy. I am so scare of this going down the road like before. He can't seem to get out of his own way. Neither can I.
This morning, I told him I think we have to expect this stuff, and carefully mentioned the counsellor idea(for him), and he is seriously thinking about it.
Any words of wisdom for DB amnesia victim here?
Kent's advice to Zebra was really good, I'm going to try to follow that, too.
) 
Yup, might be time for a little distance right now. You've been doing a GREAT job of not letting yourself get wrapped up into the situation, would hate to see it happen now.