should i keep trying?

[shippd3]

i have made the decision to LET GO. but i also have made the decision to give up HOPE AS WELL. this shi* basket she is putting BOTH of us thru is comming to an end. yes i am angry, pissed, disapointed, frustrated and even depressed. reason why at this point is because reality is hitting me right between the eyes, my marriage is comming to an end, my life i have had the last 17 years with the women i was READY TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE WITH is over. she has given me two great kids, and made my life over 16 years great, but the past year all she has given me is heart ach and pain. can the 16 years out weigh the last year i dont know, i had hope that it would, but that is fadding fast. it probably will not be a pretty night when i get home, if i go home at all. i need help to calm down before i go home!

[MuddleThrough]

Why do YOU choose to live in a $hit basket? Are you aware that you are handing all of YOUR personal power over to your W right now by blaming your W for your emotional/mental state? You have the power to put things in perspective - and you are choosing right now to see your marriage as over. This is the only reality here. So if this is YOUR choice, make sure you take 100% responsibility for it and don't blame it on your W. She doesn't have that power over you. Sure things could be better, and they were at one point or another - but you make the choice whether you're going to go outside now and find something to appreciate on your way home, or to continue to dwell on something to be angry, resentful and miserable about. If you have truly made this decision for yourself and are at peace with yourself for it - then you have nothing to be angry about. I suspect in some way you are feeling this way because you want to change the situation. You want your feelings to matter - to cause your W to respond to you in a certain way. What will ensue? A fight? Saying and possibly doing things you will regret? Take care of yourself before you do anything. Forgive yourself and let go of the hurt and blame - regardless of where you want to go with your M now.

[grasshopper]

man, great advice, your right about it all. i have known it also but didnt want to admit it. i know and want her to honestly come back to me for her, not me. because i know it wont work again, if she comes back only for me and the kids.

you guys are right, and i have been that confident guy, thats why i think she is wanting to be around me. its still hard though, putting on that happy face knowing i want more. i try to be confident, but also its hard knowing that she is still seeing the other guy that i dont know anything about. i will go with her tonight, be happy and see where it leads, i just dont know if i will slipe up AGAIN!!! i have read it takes a month for every year you were married to fix this, man i cant wait that long. thats 17 months for me, is she worth it? i want to hope so, but that is a long time.

you know, i have always been the popular guy, very outgoing, and confident. she has said that has built up resentment on her part because i lost that with her.

your right and i know that. she has asked me for the old me back, even before she left.

i have made a commintment to myself to not ask her for anything, time, hugs, kisses, nothing. which is a 180 for me. i will take what she gives me and go with that, with no expectations.

for the next 2 hrs we made love and it was great. sunday she wanted to hang out with her best friend, which was fine with me. sunday evening she just showed up and wanted to have supper with me and the kids. after supper the kids went outside, (we were now alone) w stated that last night all the dancing made her feet hurt. i massaged her feet and after that i thought (why not) i went for it. to my suprise she did not stop me, we ML again. after i was done she looked me right in my eyes and asked me (WHO ARE YOU), i laughed and said stick around and you will find out.

your right gh, i have fallen to the (shes showing me attention) bug and forgetting all about my self improvements. thanks for reminding me!! i will go back to work and take what she give and leave it at that. (well try anyway) im only human and of course i want more, i think we all do. but i also know im getting all i can right now. just wish it was more (gretty you know), but thanks for putting me back on track. just trying to deal with her emotions, (hard for me to understand) but trying to deal with it.

she told me that she just wasnt getting much space and she really needed that right now.

i know for a fact that she wants this to work, she told me that last night, she just thinks about it too much and confuses herself.

w took me out friday and we had a great time. she even asked me to stay the night with her at her place. saturday was nice we spent the whole day together and she stayed the night with me. sunday we had another great day together with the kids. monday while taking a walk together, she brought up the r talk. we talked about our fears and what we wanted in our marriage. she told me that sh wanted to come home, but her fears are keeping her from doing that at this time. all in all our r is going soo much better now then even a month ago. i can now say that i believe we are going to make it through the hell that has been the last 6 months.

All that...and then you went "into the $hit basket" again and it looks like you're determinded to stay there despite being in a position in your sitch that many here would kill for. Sad.

You know, a wise woman aroung here once told me that there were people here who just refused to get it. Are you one of those people? I KNOW you have the capacity to be otherwise. Sorry. If this it too blunt, then stop reading now.

I have tried very hard to help you, and I still want to do that now. I have NOT given up on you even though you seem to have given up on yourself. I am NOT perfect in any way, nor is my advice but if you are going to completely ignore me, muddle and anyone else who tries to help, then the quality of the advice is of no consequence. It's PERFECTLY fine to vent, but at some point you also have to listen, something that you seem to struggle with both with us and your W. When muddle posted what, 2 or 3 times about you taking responsibility for YOUR life, you didn't even respond. You just kept posting. Did you even hear him? If so, what do you think about that? Is he just wrong? Is he right and you don't want to admit it? I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to get out of this.

I have seen you happy ONLY when she was happy. I have seen you positive one day about your sitch, again, when she was "giving" you that positive outlook, only to be back in the basket the next day just because she was in a bad mood. You know what the one thing my W cited as being the biggest reason she was unhappy? It was the burden of making ME happy all the time and that she knew if she wasn't 100% happy and upbeat all the time then I would be unhappy and would in turn make her miserable. I did that to her for our entire marriage. Don't you think I could just sit here and bemoan what SHE DID TO ME too? Couldn't I just say, "yea well, at least I never CHEATED" and quit trying? I COULD do that but you know what, it doesn't address the problems of my marriage and I don't care if you use Plan A, B, C or Z, no plan will EVER save your marriage if you are unwilling to look at the REAL issues of the marriage from BOTH perspectives, then you will never have anything of lasting value.

If you look at your life and you don't want your marriage anymore, then leave. Quit. Get angry at your W and the world for putting you in this position. Keep believing that you are prefect, and mind you, from your latest posts, you do think that of yourself, especially in the context of your marriage, and move on. Find a new person to be with that will take responsibility for your happiness and bear the burden of all your baggage. I know after hearing the true, long suffered pain in my W's voice as she described being responsible for MY happiness over the past 10 years, I don't EVER want to be in that kind of R again.

Muddle said it best. You have completely given all your personal power to this woman and it's no surprise that she's able to do this to you, and I take NO happiness in saying that because I know your pain IS real, and IS unjustified but after a certain amount of time and understanding, we have to learn to move on from that. I can only hope that going forward, this pain at least serves to prevent you from giving so much of your life over to another person. It's not fair to them OR you.

I really thought things were moving forward for you, and I still think they could be, but you know what, if you choose to turn around and walk backwards, then I can only hope you get what you are looking for. I hope what lies down that path brings you the peace and happiness you can't find on this one.

Shippd, I have been with you from the beginning and just want what's best for you. I don't know your W so I can't really say I want what's best for her. You said you wanted to save this marriage, so as long as you're here, I am still going to try to help you do that. I know this hurts like hell, but you know what, so do a lot of things in life and we just learn to do what we have to do to make it to the next day.

she has given me two great kids, and made my life over 16 years great, but the past year all she has given me is heart ach and pain. can the 16 years out weigh the last year i dont know, i had hope that it would, but that is fadding fast.

Look, if 1 year of pain is not worth two kids, 16 years of love, and the potential for a lifetime beyond that, then methinks you don't truly value that love. What's the difference between what you are considering now and what WAS all over the world do? Let's see...I'm not really happy right now and that's all my spouses fault so I'll just go find a new partner and it'll fix all my problems. Wrong for them, and wrong for you.

Please shippd, please hear me. I don't want you to stay in this marriage if it's going be the wrong thing for you.

IF you somehow find the courage to try something different, something different than giving up, or being attached to her every emotional whim, then you need to do it for the long term, not just until she changes moods.

I still have faith in you but you really need to take a good hard look in the mirror and see if you truly have faith in yourself, no matter WHAT happens with your marriage cuz going forward, you WILL need that to build a new life.

Last thing...when you look in that mirror, do you see the "old you" still? You did a few weeks ago...where did he go?

GH

[grasshopper]

From "coping.org":

Detachment is the:

Ability to allow people, places, or things the freedom to be themselves.

Holding back from the need to rescue, save, or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional, or irrational.

Giving another person "the space'' to be him or herself.

Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.

Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place, or thing.

Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.

Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.

Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.

Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern, and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, or controlling.

Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.

Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

Ability to allow people to be who they "really are'' rather than who you "want them to be.''

Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.


What are the negative effects not detaching?

If you are unable to detach from people, places, or things, then you:

Will have people, places, or things which become over-dependent on you.

Run the risk of being manipulated to do things for people, at places, or with things, which you do not really want to do.

Can become an obsessive ``fix it'' who needs to fix everything you perceive to be imperfect.

Run the risk of performing tasks because of the intimidation you experience from people, places, or things.

Will most probably become powerless in the face of the demands of the people, places, or things whom you have given the power to control you.

Will be blind to the reality that the people, places, or things which control you are the uncontrollables and unchangeables you need to let go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual.

Will be easily influenced by the perception of helplessness which these people, places, or things project.

Might become caught up with your idealistic need to make everything perfect for people, places, or things important to you even if it means your own life becomes unhealthy.

Run the risk of becoming out of control of yourself and experience greater low self-esteem as a result.

Will most probably put off making a decision and following through on it, if you rationally recognize your relationship with a person, place, or thing is unhealthy and the only recourse left is to get out of the relationship.

Will be so driven by guilt and emotional dependence that the sickness in the relationship will worsen.

Run the risk of losing your autonomy and independence and derive your value or worth solely from the unhealthy relationship you continue in with the unhealthy person, place, or thing.

[shippd3]

i first want to thank everyone that has posted to me. and to you i seem pretty crazy. GH i understand the affects of detaching, i believe in some of the things, but not on others. i can not and will not (as you have told me) change my core, what i feel i am all about. i am a loving person, and i NEED to show that love to everyone i do love. if that is BAD, then well i will just have to be bad. yes i have gotten worse the last week and half, i know that, you guys deffently see that. i am just having a hard time with everything right now, and i have only posted a small portion of the things i am going thru right now. i should have not posted yesturday, i was very angry with my wife, and i have every right to be. i have calmed down with her now, did not say anything to her about my anger. i do need to LOOK into the mirror, and ask myself some hard questions. 1) what do i really want, am i saving my marriage for me or the kids. i can not anwser that right now 2) do i truely feel my wife will be a person I WANT to live happy with. 3) do i feel if we stay together, will this ever happen again, cause if i believe it will, i need to end it now. you guys are right, now i have to go to my CORE and work out from there. i have not done this at this point, mainly because i was only focused on saving my marriage, i forgot to recinize to ask myself what i truly want. i am going to do that now, i dont know if i will stay or go at this point. i do LOVE MY WIFE, but sorry to say SHE is testing my love beyound the boundies of marriage. so THANK YOU, and if you think i am too lost, then you do not have to respond to me anymore, i will go at this alone, and see where it ends up.

[grasshopper]

so THANK YOU, and if you think i am too lost, then you do not have to respond to me anymore, i will go at this alone, and see where it ends up.

Never. I never said that, nor implied it. You never have to go this alone. You had the courage to start posting here because you thought the people here could and would help you. That's still true. If I thought you were too lost, I would simply stop talking to you...just like your W would if she were truly "over" you.

and to you i seem pretty crazy.

Not at all. You are simply going through one of the hardest things in the world to go through. You are NOT crazy.

GH i understand the affects of detaching, i believe in some of the things, but not on others.

That's fair, and really the best way to take in this stuff. We can't all believe in 100% of all this. You have to change it to suit your needs, your life.

i can not and will not (as you have told me) change my core, what i feel i am all about. i am a loving person, and i NEED to show that love to everyone i do love.

Who ever said you needed to change that? I am loving too and need to show that to everyone I love too, but I don't think that's what I was doing when I was all angry and wanting to end my marriage over my W's affair. I came to understand that a lot of what I thought of as love was codependency and that was something that would kill ANY relationship, with my W or anyone else. Now I understand that I CAN show love to my W even in these trying times, even if she doesn't show it back to me...right now. I CAN remain loving in the face of this ordeal, and THAT is how I remain the loving, kind soul I think I am.

Again, I never suggested you change ANYTHING about the core of you. You just change the behaviors that didn't really express that loving nature, i.e. the anger, controlling and other "negatives" that crept into your personality, betraying the "real you".

if that is BAD, then well i will just have to be bad.

That is not "bad" if it's truly who you want to be, and HOW you want to express it. If you decide that your behavior, your life is "perfect" for you as is, and you can't change any more, then accept that and let the chips fall where they may. There's only so much we can do, the rest is up to God, or, God forbid, our W's.

i am just having a hard time with everything right now, and i have only posted a small portion of the things i am going thru right now.

Ok, and I feel for you. Don't post less, post more. Post the rest of what you're going through. Maybe we can help.

i should have not posted yesturday, i was very angry with my wife, and i have every right to be.

Yes you should have posted. WE ALL post things like that, and if someone who cares about us is watching, we ALL get posts back like the one I posted to you. It happens. Don't let that prevent you from posting. This is the RIGHT place to vent, so you don't do it at home.

i have calmed down with her now, did not say anything to her about my anger.

\\

Good. I'm glad.

i do need to LOOK into the mirror, and ask myself some hard questions. 1) what do i really want, am i saving my marriage for me or the kids. i can not anwser that right now 2) do i truely feel my wife will be a person I WANT to live happy with. 3) do i feel if we stay together, will this ever happen again, cause if i believe it will, i need to end it now.

VERY good questions, but the third one you CANNOT answer, and neither can she. For that matter you can't even say YOU won't cheats sometime in the future, and if you say for sure that you won't, I'll call you a liar because damn near every one of our spouses would have offered up their first born as proof that they'd never cheat either...and here they are...and here we are...

Even the second question is loaded a bit because again, are you talking about who she is today, the vile cheating b!tch, or the potential loving woman whom you forgive and who forgives herself for her transgressions...and btw, forgives YOU for yours as well?

The first question is obviously the key, and without answering that with conviction, you likely will struggle with this.

you guys are right, now i have to go to my CORE and work out from there. i have not done this at this point, mainly because i was only focused on saving my marriage, i forgot to recinize to ask myself what i truly want. i am going to do that now, i dont know if i will stay or go at this point.

Good. You're right, it IS something that you needed to be doing all along, and now that you recognize that, I think you will start to be better. You have the tools. Just use them now.

i do LOVE MY WIFE, but sorry to say SHE is testing my love beyound the boundies of marriage.

I can't resist this one last time...do you think YOU'VE in any way tested HER boundaries of marriage? Do you think she just woke up one day and decided to ruin your life? You either give her too much credit or WAY too little. You don't have a monopoly on feeling slighted by what you're marriage has become. It's just that it "became" for you more recently and now you are faced with the decision that she was faced with some time ago...do I fight to change and save my marriage or do I go another direction? It's up to you now.

and if you think i am too lost, then you do not have to respond to me anymore, i will go at this alone, and see where it ends up.

Once again, NEVER is someone too lost. As long as you post, I will never stop replying.

GH

[shippd3]

well it happened!!
i self destructed. i lost it last night. why i could not listen to everybodys advice i dont know. i pushed and pushed my w last night to open up to me and tell me what was going on. boy did i not want to hear her side of the story, it was pretty ugly. i now no my marriage is over and i can not blame anyone but myself. i have been told by everyone in here to give it time and wait it out, i just could not listen, did not listen. that is the whole problem in my sitch, i am very controlling and need it to go my way or the highway. i have failed myself, my children, and especially my w. why couldnt i just listen to everyone that gave me so much great advice. i guess i am just not that way. anyway, thanks for the advice, be i could not listen. maybe if anything my personal journey in this forum, my failiers on the way i handled my sitch, will help someone else in thiers, please use me as an exemple of what not to do, listen to GH, and muddlethrough, and everyone else that gives advice. read my entire post and see what i did wrong and maybe right some of the time and learn from it and DONT DO AS I DID. my w is probably moving back out again and now i know its over, not because of her wrong doings but because of mine. take care everyone, stay focused and dont loose that, i did and i lost.

[cire]

Dont give up just back off.........Let Time do what Time does best.

[shippd3]

yea cire, its over, she told me that over and over last night. i have to believe her this time, because she did try and i did not change on the inside. i did on some things i do everyday, but not my feelings, i did not change that, and that is what i needed to change the most.

[cire]

yea cire, its over, she told me that over and over last night. i have to believe her this time, because she did try and i did not change on the inside. i did on some things i do everyday, but not my feelings, i did not change that, and that is what i needed to change the most.

So do you feel you should change these things? Not for her but for yourself. If so then you are still a work in progress and who wants to buy an unfinished painting.

The changes that need to happen will tell the story themselves. As one who likes to fix and control everything I know first hand how that approach unravels everything.

Don't fix IT fix YOU.