thanks for the help muddlethrough, i do understand what you are saying, and i am going to go back to the basics. i am only human and last friday i was on cloud nine, i moved my wife home and YES i was ready for a happy ending. but instead i got the same wife i had before she moved out. that is not what i or we wanted, and now i have to deal with this. i know deep down my w wants to work it out, but i dont know if she will dig deep and work out her issues and save her marriage to me, or if she just gives in to the surface of her issues and quits. i know she has to make those choices, not me, but i do have choices also, i am and will for a little longer chose to stay and work on myself and my marriage, but i also know i can pull the plug on this life support of my marriage and for the good of my wife and children, end this whole mess and move on. its not what i want to do but when you are back into a corner (like i feel i am now) we all have to make the choice of staying or moving on.