Quote: GH she says so many things, and they are always changing. first she told me i was controlling, then it was i was too jealous, then i was always in a bad mood, then it was i chased off all her friends, and know its i cant open up to new people.
My brother from another mother, lol. These are the EXACT things my W (along with a few more) said about me, and was 100% right about in my case. It's in these areas, being controlling, jealous, moody (read:angry) and anti-social that I started to go to counseling about. After I got there, I discovered my intimacy issues and passive/aggressive nature. For some reason all that didn't make me feel like a pile of $hit, it made me feel ok about myself because now I WAS TAKING ACTION and being decisive, something I have come to learn my W, like most women appreciate above many other things in a man.
Quote: im sorry for thinking you are blaming me for all this, in a way i do feel that way, but i do truely appricate your advice, almost waiting for it. and you have helped me, it might not seem that way but you have.
No problem. I don't take this personally. I used to but there was a little exchange on a thread some time ago that taught me that I either have to be able to post without worrying about the reaction, or stop posting. I chose the former. I am glad I can help, just like I guess I'm glad you can read really long winded posts, lol.
Quote: how can i let her have her moods and detach from them, in 36years i have never been able to leave someone alone that i think is hurting, its my nature to try and help them heal.
You have all the answers right there in your question. First of all, it's not your place to "let" her have her moods. That's your first big mistake. She will have her moods whether you "let" her or not. I know you didn't probably mean "let" in the literal sense, but never-the-less, I think you DO mean it that way. I know I used to think that way. It was like every mood or emotion that she experienced DEMANDED a response from me or else I was a bad husband, an uncaring human.
In terms of your other assertion that it's your nature to "help" them heal, that's BS. You don't want to HELP them heal, you want to heal them. If I told you that simply keeping your current mood, which lets just say is happy, ad the next time your W gets in a funk, simply giving her a hug and a "let me know if you need to talk" before walking away would "help her heal", would you do that? Would it be hard? I know for me it was REALLY hard to learn to do that, but when I looked back at how I USED to be, I was shocked at how much I actually CONTRIBUTED to her pain rather than healed her. For example, when my W used to get upset, crying and such about her brother dying, I used to actually get ANGRY because I knew she was blaming herself, something that I knew was stupid. I didn't simply hug her and LISTEN to her, I wanted to FIX her. I WANTED TO HEAL HER, not HELP her heal herself, and I think that's one of the most important things we men have to learn about women...they DON'T always want to be fixed, rarely ever actually.
Quote: how do i keep quiet when i have always been a communiter.
Again, pardon me for re-interpreting your words and projecting myself onto your sitch, but I think what you really mean to say here (because it's what I would have said too) is that you are a TALKER. You like to talk, but communicating is a LOT more than that, and really what I think your W needs now is LISTENING without a lot of communication back from you. She knows how you feel. You've told her several times. She knows you are in tremendous pain over this. She knows she is responsible for a lot of that no matter what she says to the contrary, and the guilt probably eats at her a bit, but the more you are constantly "communicating" your side of things, the more she may feel justified in NOT communicating hers.
Listen, validate, move on.
Quote: like i said i am the type of person that likes to work hard, see the prize and then reap the benifits. how do i change that.
There's nothing wrong with that, but again (see a theme here) I will re-interpret your words. "I am a person who, once they see the prize, wants it NOW and sometimes lacks patience to wait for it."
I know you want to work hard and be able to steadily progress towards the "prize" but you have to understand that there are two people in this process, both of whom are at MUCH different points along the path, and maybe even for whom the "prize" is different. That's where listening and REAL communication that involves a lot of validation and empathy comes into play. Once you both start to get closer on the path, the more you can start to understand what it may take to get the "prize".
Quote: know somethings i have to change, thats a given, but i am who i am in many ways, just like she is who she is, i am willing to except some of her things i dont like, i just wish she would do the same to me.
This needs no interpretation. You are 100% right here. There ARE some things that are the core of you, that you should not change, and many others that SEEM to be but upon further inspection are NOT who you are. In many disciplines of psychology/philosophy there is the concept of the ego and the idea that the "personality" or who we THINK we are, who we have been crafted into by our lives to this point, is NOT who we are at all, but rather just a conglomeration of crap we've attached to. Much of therapy and philosophy is interested in discovering that true core, behind the ego and personality.
What all this means to you is that maybe you don't need to cling so hard to SOME of what you think you are. What you KNOW is core to your being, sure, fight for that.
Quote: i asked her what i did that she did not like several months back, and i dont do those things anymore, she wanted to know what i didnt like about her, but she will not and has not changed them.
I don't really like this. Sure, you CAN ask her, but you know what, survey after survey has shown that what people SAY and THINK they want are usually VERY different from what they are attracted to or REALLY want. For example, many women say that they want a "nice" guy but upon closer inspection, a lot of those "nice" qualities also turn them off and push them away. What they probably mean is they want a decisive man who considers their feelings, the decisive part not usually included in the definition of "nice".
So, you making changes based on what SHE said was wrong may not have been the BEST thing to do. I would say now is the time for you to look closely at your life, marriage and self to see what YOU think is wrong, no matter what she said. I think if you are honest, you will find some more work to do, and not for her, for you.
Quote: we both agreed we would give each other what we needed. i have held my end of the bargin, its now up too her to do her part.
This is not a business deal. This is not a bargain. Loving people fill the needs of their partners not out of obligation but because they want to. I don't think EITHER of you WANT to do this right now. I think both of you want to have your needs met, but see too many reasons why you shouldn't do that for the other. That's part of what I meant by dropping your weapons.
I think you may not be where you need to be in order for this "bargain" to work. I think you are still in a place where you need to have NO expectations about her meeting your needs, just like you have had none up to this point. I know that sucks, but just because she moved back does not mean she's ready for the "bargain", or at least to be an equal partner in it. I should know. My W never moved out, but the affair ended over a month ago. I had ALL the same expectations and she even said some of the same things as your W about meeting my needs, but you know what, like the book said, I didn't believe much of what I heard and it's helped me stay strong and self-sufficient through this limbo.
