Hi, Lee! HO read me right, the letter is mainly to help you let go. No, I don't really think it's the end of your R, I haven't heard that fat lady singing a song for you so far!
From all of the posts of yours I've read, I don't know if I've ever really heard you get very angry. You seem to keep it inside, and blame yourself for things that happen, or don't happen. I've done that often, too, and finally realized that's not the case. When I "idealize" the relationship, think TOO much about all the good things about my W, I create unrealistic expectations of her. Unrealistic expectations from the R. I have to find a balance, grasshopper! I get sooo wrapped up in all of it, I have to stop and wonder if I "want" the R, or do I "need" the R. If I need it, then I have to take a closer look at myself, and what I need to do to get closer to being a whole person. Not basing my every action on how it's going to affect the R, but rather on how it's going to affect me. Not what I'm going to do to "make the marriage work", but rather what things I can do for myself that will add to the relationship. Is this making any sense?
As Kent and I have both told you before (correct me if I'm wrong, Kent), the biggest turning points for us was when we figured out we'd be ok without our W's. That our lives were going to be good no matter what. Mine happened after I got over the sadness and hurt about my W's A, and finally got pissed!! I realized that that I had done some things wrong. I also realized that my W had done some things wrong. I knew that I could no longer depend on her for my happiness, that it was going to have to come from within me. I no longer idolized her or OR, but saw them for what they were. We are 2 imperfect human beings in an imperfect relationship.
Part of the "acting-as-if-things-are-over" is facing your fears, and figuring out what you're really afraid of. Is it fear of loneliness, financial loss, of growing old alone, of failure, loss of control, rejection, pride……..??? There are thousands of things, different for everyone. What they may seem to be on the surface may not actually be what they are deep down. It seems like until some of this is taken care of, the M won't be as complete and as trouble-free as it could be. This is something I still struggle with at times, and will hopefully someday find all the answers. All I know is that my answers won't come from someone else, they have to come from me. It seems that once you face some of those fears, the monsters aren't as big as they once seemed.
I WANT to be married to my W (well, most of the time, anyway, except when she really PISSES ME OFF!!). I think, for me, it's knowing that I don't HAVE to be married to her is what keeps me going through the tougher times. I try to take these times to figure out what I really want in my life, besides my marriage, think about what I would do if she wasn't in the picture anymore.
Re going dark and dimness……try considering these times as little "mini-vacations", where you can get some rest and regroup yourself. To work on you, and not your R. To gain some strength and different perspectives on the situation. To see things in a different light from when you were standing right in the middle of it.
I hope this doesn't sound too heavy, or like a bunch of BS, it's just some of what works for me, and is IMHO!!!
I'm glad you got out and went to the wedding. Bet it was tough, I tried avoid them. Keep up your chats with the BIG GUY, he'll be there for you. Let go, and let God. We're all pulling for YOU, and your R, too. Take care, my friend.
JJ
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An interesting thing about depression is the way it can reverse. For me it was acceptance of the stuff JJ just talked about (imperfect are we). It was realization that my depression was MY reaction to OR and my W's actions. Once I identified the vicious cycle we were in, I realized there was only one choice and that was to get happy. I had to initiate this change in attitude. With happiness comes strength and some feeling of peace.
Ending your depression is YOUR choice. It may not fix your H's problems, but it will allow him to focus on him rather than on your freaking out or your depression. Stop giving him something to blame Lee.
Thank you for giving me so much to think about. I have printed off your posts and am going to roll up my sleeves. Had a few lightbulb moments when reading them. And I will post some thoughts later today or tonight if that's ok. I really appreciate your help.
I wish I could go to a spa, Kent! Fact is, last week actually was a "vacation". I hardly feel it was much of one, and I knew I would feel that way, so I really DID force myself sometimes to "Act As If" I could be happy and enjoy myself. I spent a lot of time with my 3 yr old nephew -(he taught me how to "play" in his pool). I went to my favorite place twice - the beach. I prayed and wrote in my journal a lot(and I am not an overly religious person). I shopped for a new 2 piece bathing suit (6 sizes smaller than the last time I bought one). I started making a new quilt, and finally to cap it all off, I went out last night, flirted with men and got drunk. Came to my first day back at work sick and hungover. (ok, that was stupid, and unplanned for sure). I hope you guys are proud
I honestly think that despite what is happening with R and H, I am putting my best effort into myself. BUT It is sabotaged by the importance I am putting on the one part of my world that feels so wrong. R - that love - is really so important to me.
Well, enough babbling- I have to get to some doing what works and solution hunting. I want to be one of you guys who "gets it" and quit the whining.
Back later. Please keep talking to me if it isn't any trouble. It's helping a lot, too.
Homework installment 1 (working backwards through the good stuff you have posted to me):
from Kent: ******************************************* Ending your depression is YOUR choice. It may not fix your H's problems, but it will allow him to focus on him rather than on your freaking out or your depression. Stop giving him something to blame Lee. *******************************************
This is so true. I'll be really honest with myself here- my depression and "freaking out" is a reaction. Albeit an honest one. I don't set out to manipulate him, (in fact I really don't want to) but it certainly does not help me , him or OR, and effecitvely that's the result when it happens.
I don't show him all of it- last tuesday night was way over the top, though. And so it is likely sticking in his mind. That isn't how I want him to see me, It's not fair to the work I have done for myself to fall back into that. And so I have to change how I react. Period.
I realize that sometimes I need to feel like we are "in this together"- that if I don't tell him my feelings, and leave him alone to just deal with himself that it'll be really easy for him to just forget about me altogether. Ok, I'm facing the big flaws there.
Action I am going to take: When I speak to him next, I will NOT get into telling him how I FEEL. (DB 101) but instead - I will let him know in calm way if I think my feelings are interfering with my ability to deal with him rationally, then ask if we can try again later. We communicate well when I detach in that way.
Thunderbolt moment last night (literally, I was sitting out in a thunderstorm when I thought of it).
I have realised that the way I have been going, I have not been convinced of my ability to stand on my own two feet. Nevermind that I HAVE been doing it (albeit with very wobbly legs). That is not my biggest fear in all this, actually, but more a thought that is sabotaging my best efforts. I thought of it this way:
If H did miraculously decide to come back, and later I looked back on this time, I would not want to feel RELIEVED that I didn't have to find out how I'd be without him, but instead - confident that I did find out and it was ok. To do that doesn't have to mean I have to stop wanting it to work with him, that's a different thing. I know this is what you guys have been telling me. I have a way to go to really get there, but I am thinking about it a lot.
(PS No word from H since he left a voicemail about going away for the weekend. 5 days ago. Don't know if he's back, even. It's bothering me, I admit, but I will not even mention it if he does ever call again.)
Really felt detached from H and situation for a lot of yesterday (things were crazy at work). Until the end of the day anyway, he called and left mesages at both my desk and my cell phone at the end of the day.
He said he just wanted me to know he's not ignoring me, and not "not calling" for any weird reason. He going through a REALLY hard time (said this a few times)and that I can't help, though he knows I'm so sweet, I'd probably want to and that he wants to talk to me soon.
And he was speaking strangely - almost as if he was medicated (not remotely likely). I have no idea what is going on with him - what this low phase is about this time. These lows seem to be getting worse and this is not a man who got depressed over ANYTHING a year ago. Anyway, I'm trying not to think about it or worry about him. Hard to do.
I didn't return H's call Wed. He called again last night "to connect" with me, and "have a nice time for a few minutes" (bizarre switch after last week). We kept it light. No OR. He's not sounding very stable, but was warm and - humble. And emotional (despite the light talk). He asked what was going on in my life, and if I'd be home this weekend, asked me if he could maybe call again. (?)
I realize it could change next week. I'm gonna stay dim and let him come closer if HE wants to.
Hey Lee - Way to go on not returning the call!! I know it's a tough thing.
Are you gonna be available for him this weekend? I might suggest you take a close look at what's happening right now, and see if there are any patterns of behavior that look familiar. If there are, what could you do that might be a little different from what you would normally do? Maybe something to change some of the steps of the dance the 2 of you are doing?
Anyway, I'm trying not to think about it or worry about him. Hard to do.
Yes, very hard to do. Keep this up, distract yourself with fun things. Take a lot of "Lee" time this weekend. You deserve it! Have a great weekend, my friend!
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 08-10-2001).]
JJ
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamesjohn: [B] Are you gonna be available for him this weekend? ...what could you do that might be a little different from what you would normally do?
[b]
I am thinking about this exact thing. He sounds really bad, JJ. I am trying not(and succeeding mostly) to let this get to me. (that's a difference in ME right there).
He admitted that he is worried for himself right now. While he has said this once before, I have to take it seriously because it is not typical of his nature to be THIS low. There was a good difference in our dynamic last night- he wasn't dumping on me or trying to drag me in, he was just reaching out. And he also asked me if I would be around, and if he could call (which he doesn't usually do) I don't think I should go completely dark while he's in such a bad place. I've read back to old posts and the few times he was reaching out to me this way, it has been a good thing, so long as I don't chase and worry myself into a state after him. Make sense?
My plan: IF he calls I might let it go to voice mail then return it later, or keep it short and light again, or return the call when I think he isn't home. These are all small changes from what I normally do. What do you think? Let me have it if you think I'm wrong, or I should do something else.
Lee - I do think what you're saying makes sense. Any and/or all of the plans you talk about sound fine to me. Changes don't always have to be drastic to be effective, they just have to be something different. Just pay attention to what the results are.
I'm glad you're not letting his drama get to you, and still want to let him reach for you. Don't reach out your hand too far, at this point he needs to meet you MORE than halfway. Above all, keep your strength, and let him work things out on his own. Don't fall into his pity party. He will do better if you are up, strong, happy, and don't feed his depression. Learn a few new jokes that you can tell him, maybe just to change the subject of you need to. His problems are his, not yours. Be strong, my friend! And have a GREAT weekend!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
