Underdog, thank you so much for the "whacking". I am truely one messed up Mama. I will take your advice and will go to the bookstore right now. Going back over everything, I do see what terrible mistakes I have made and continue to make everyday.
My husband is afraid to open up to me. He even stated that is why a MC would help.
You are right, I am VERY controlling and want to FIX everything. I went over this with my C once. I even do this with my kids. I'm probably sending them the message that they can't do anything right. This is the EXACT message I received as a kid from my Dad. How do I end this? Ugg, I think I need counseling 24/7, probably a straight jacket too.
Underdog, please stick with me if you can as I definetly need a good slapping now and again.
Oh no! Mama, I don't want to whack you... so I won't come here for that purpose. I just see things here because they are too doggone close to my past, and I'd like to offer some clarity where I believe I've got it.
Quote: My husband is afraid to open up to me. He even stated that is why a MC would help.
If he chooses to go this route, reward him! But in the mean time, it would be wonderful if you can figure out how to work on your own issues. Maybe if the 2 of you work independently for awhile, you'll be able to see each other (and yourselves) differently?
This is why I cringe when I read about confrontation when the problem is really about how you feel. Granted, his actions are pretty deplorable, but you'll never know how much you contribute to this scenario until you kill the motor in that ship and let it sit idle for awhile.
Quote: You are right, I am VERY controlling and want to FIX everything.
You're not alone! Guilty as charged on my front too. It takes one to know one...
Quote: I even do this with my kids. I'm probably sending them the message that they can't do anything right. This is the EXACT message I received as a kid from my Dad.
Me too! Only it was my mom who perpetuated this dynamic. To this day, if I tell her about a controversial discussion I've had with a family member, she yells at me, "Why didn't you tell them XXX?" I'm 44 years old, and my mom still thinks that her way is the only way and the right way.
But I understand her better now. I see her control as a mask for her fear... Fear that I'll be hurt and it will cause her pain. Fear that I won't be able to manage my life emotionally from the pain I've had. Fear that it might reflect back on her. And instead of dealing with her fear and why it's present, she seeks to control the rest of us. Because her mind tells her it's easier to deal with our external chaos rather than deal with her internal chaos. When she isn't able to usurp control, it makes her angry... and the rest of us get out of the way.
You're not crazy and you don't need a straight jacket. What might help is a behavioral microscope, though. One that allows you to see things from your past and to carry them forward to your present. A means of providing you some clarity on the things that are no longer helpful or healthful... and a means of letting them go.
Letting go... two very simple words that have been the biggest challenge for me thus far. I still do battle with them, Mama. And I won't tell you I'm cured, because I'm not. But every stinking day, I wake up and ask God for help in managing my fears and all the situations that might bring them out full force. I think He has a very tough job with me most of the time...
But my point here is that it's time to try something. Anything. Because you feel miserable, and it's painfully obvious to those of us who are reading your journaling. It's easy enough to point fingers at him--hell, he's making that easy for you to do--but the fact is you're unhappy because of how you feel.
And until you address this very subject matter, things aren't going to improve between the 2 of you. Chances are, this dynamic has been brewing for a very long time. It's just going to need a very long time to sort itself out. It's definitely going to require patience... and you're going to have to be most patient with yourself.
This is the one area that I committed 110% to no backslides... I set myself a zero tolerance for outward displays of rages and learned how to communicate through my anger without holding my XH responsible for how I felt. It took a very long time, friend, but I'm living proof that it can be done.
Counseling also helped... so if that's an avenue you're willing to take to feel better about yourself and your ability to make good and lasting change, I'm more than happy to support your endeavors.
So... no whacking if at all possible. I don't enjoy it, and you don't benefit from it. I'm just glad to hear that you're open to seeing things differently. That's a big start!
Hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
WOW! Mama, I agree with everything UD is saying, b/c, along with UD, I'm your other triplet. Were we all lost at birth....let's all pray that our spouse's don't get together.
OK, yes, it was from our past, our parents, our M's are a wreck, things are WAY out of control and BEYOND normal and feel that we can't get it back. You feel crazy (so did I) and it's hard to extend this compassionate view of communicating with an A going on. My thoughts, in bullet point, again--it may be harsh, but I love ya, so here it goes. I'm saying these things b/c of all people on these boards, our situations mirror each other the most....I want to tell you these things directly so you can stop taking things backwards and move them forward--before it's too late.
* You're not REALLY crazy, but you sure are making yourself that way. You get so riled up when he comes home late? WHY? You KNOW he is, but choose to act surprised anyway. Why? Just move on with your life. Know this, whatever it is with OW, it's NOT true love, all that crap. Things are crappy at home and it's H's escape. Bad, deplorable, but that is ALL it is. Stop making it out to be more. Stop the crazy-making.
* Face this: wanna know how he looks at you? He sees you as angry. That's it, plain and simple. To him you are: out of control, angry, ready to rage at any minute, he can never do good, he can never satisfy, being with you is a prison, torture, you're demanding, controlling, forceful. So, he doesn't really care what he does to you now. Do you think he cares that he hurts you? NO....b/c you're just a raging control freak anyway....again, I'm being TOUGH, but this is what I saw H see in me....he TOLD me and it was one hell of a wake up call. His patience and tenderness with you is worn out, he does not see you as a person he needs to protect, rather one he needs to protect himself from. Of course, let's not forget that you feel this way b/c of the A, but he can't see that.
* You have control. PUSH THE STOP BUTTON on your emotions, your actions, your control, your demands, your anger. For me, it was a choice to STOP THE CRAZY_MAKING. I did it the day I found out about OW. I stopped. I let go. It was honestly the BEST thing I did and it got H to turn around and stop the A. Go against your anger, be nice no matter what, be cheery, upbeat, be everything opposite of what I described to you that he sees you as. Laugh, smile, don't be rash, unreasonable. Don't ask questions (for now), act like you trust him, don't treat him like a criminal.
* Who knows what he's attracted to now. BUT, UD is right, who can find an angry person attractive, you are not attracted to someone who you don't trust and feel hurts you. I feel that way about H now and SEE how he felt. The main point is....are you attracted to YOURSELF? Do YOU think you're pretty? If so, then show it, believe it, feel it. Do you think you're nice, have changed? If so, show it believe it and feel it. You get the point. You can't expect people to like a person you don't like yourself. Learn to love you. NOW.
* You MUST make a committment, 110%, like UD suggested, to radically change NOW. H will see these things. Your anger, your reactions. It's rather unfortunate that this is probably the FIRST time that warrants your reactions, but it doesn't matter, you cried wolf so much in the past, you have forsaken your ability to act in anger and have it understood. The time will come for that. It's NOT now. I viewed it as this: in my M, patience was NOT something I was any good at. So, I was given the ultimate test, to be patient in a situation that did not deserve my patience, one that I had a right to flip about. Could I do it? I did. You can too.
* Your H is scared of you now. He's scared to stop, b/c what does he have, the raging consequences of his mistakes. He's afraid to talk to you. He's afraid to admit mistakes, to find solutions, like UD and GH said. The best thing my H told me was that he finally felt SAFE with me. WOW. That is your mission. In your every action. No conditions to this.
* GO TO THE MC. What are you thinking? He agrees to it and you're pissed that he's not enthusiastic and are projecting all your fearful assumtions as to WHY? He is saying things b/c he's hurt and trying to throw spears to protect himself...."I'm not attracted to you, I don't want to hurt you, I am only going for you..." I say things like this in times of pain too, I don't feel that way, really, but it's PA behavior. Not telling the truth for fear of being REAL. Fix the appt and go. You both clearly can't talk now, b/c of trust, use the counselor for H to feel safe. This is a golden opportunity and if you let too long go before fixing an appt, it only shows him that you haven't changed, that you can't let a grudge go to do the right thing. I KNOW that if you go, are open and stop the anger, this WILL turn things around...you will unearth good things for both of you.
* H needs to know, over a long time, that you WILL be gentle and forgive him. That you will feel anger, and pain, but you will forgive. That is a BIG reason why he won't turn back to you. My H kept saying this too, it's too broken to go on, you can't forgive me. Well, if I went crazy over small things, what makes him think I can forgive this? Not much.
PLEASE....push the stop button today. call a time out. Do your part to add nothing put positive into the M, and it will build. It did for me. It's what brought H around to see things. I'm sorry if this was harsh sounding, but I want to see this work for both of you. You're amazing and capable of great change, just work hard now.
Re: cell phone. Yeah, it hurts. A secret phone. My H had one too, remember?
I'm on the other end now, so let me tell you this. It's NOTHING. She means nothing. Again, it's b/c he's scared of you. No excuse, but it means nothing.
My H told me this...he threw it out, hated it, wanted it rid from his life, and wanted to stop the madness. Your H will too.
OW, the phone, all if it is just a salve...sooner or later H will turn around and see how unsatisfying it all is b/c it's 'wrong' and can't last.
Wow always_14, excellent! if y'all don't mind, I'm saving those thoughts for me, too.
Mama, you know we're not supposed to believe the things they say, and I always hear this re: "reconciliation" but it works when they're pushing us away, too. My H has repeatedly told me he is not attracted to me, in a variety of ways, but his actions don't reflect that at all...
UD and always have very good advice, things that need to change regardless of where our M's take us.
Only cause we've lived through it. Yes, it's NOT fair that we have to be patient in this mess right now. I am struggling with this now. BUT, it's kinda what this whole M and love thing is about. Also, I created such bad trends in my M, so did H, that I don't know truly if this can work unless I undo them and see if it can work. Ex: I want to see, in the absence of my sins, if the M can work?
I am prepared to accept that it may not. That H still can't see his side of things, and there is his side. I cannot live with someone who cannot see that it takes 2, and he needs some changes as well. But, at the very least, do everything, right now, to do YOUR part. It WILL inspire H's to do theirs. If not, then, there's your answer.
Wow, I love you guys. No really, I do. You are straightforward and honest. I took UD's advice and went to the bookstore. Not only did I get "The Dance of Anger, A woman's guide to changing the patterns of intimate relationships", I also got "How One of you can bring the Two of you Together" by Susan Page. She seems to be on the same track as Michelle Weiner-Davis.
Controlling my "anger" is not only going to help in the R with my H but with my kids as well.
I was reading your posts to my girlfriend and she asked "How is your PMA now?" She expected me to say bad, but surprisingly it is good. I have a goal now and something tangible that I can reach - a happier me!
Holy cow, you began that sprint Mama! Always, I thank you for your very detailed and eloquent thoughts.
Mama, I'm proud of you for seeing this as information and not personalizing it. Something tells me you're going to be kicking all of this into gear and seeing results quickly. I'll make sure to bookmark your thread.
Quote: Controlling my "anger" is not only going to help in the R with my H but with my kids as well.
You're absolutely right! It's the first step in separating ourselves from everyone else... and also the first step in owning our own feelings and allowing other people to own their own.
Authentic communication is the only way to go... and from here on out, I prefer to see truth rather than set up a sitch so that I am prevented from dealing with it. It stinks. It also doesn't teach kids how to to successfully navigate and communicate through their feelings either.
Best of luck, and I'm anxious to hear what you learn from the books. I just gave both of them away... to someone who needed the information more than I needed to stash it.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I'm 44 years old, and my mom still thinks that her way is the only way and the right way.