The platonic relationship continues Part 2

[Underdog]

Hi Mama and all--I saw Always' comments about the P/A discussion on her thread and came over to have a look. I'm glad I did.

This P/A dynamic has come up in my own M, as my XH is a classic P/A--we spent a lot of time discussing the whys and solutions in C, so I've come to know this monster awfully well.

Rob, you're right and not so right in your observation that it's a communication style and not a personality disorder. It is sometimes a p/d when the person has been classically trained in emotion denial--and the person who becomes the stereotype for the p/d is someone who is P/A in all their relationships. The behavior originates when there is an inability to recognize or process anger.

Anger is about how I feel--not about what you're doing.

Remember that statement in ALL your communications. This is how we become guilty of projecting--when we assign blame to others for how we feel. And this is where a P/A person trips up.

Mama's comments that she hates confrontations is somewhat of an alarm to me, as that indicates someone who is extremely uncomfortable in being emotionally honest when the emotions are perceived as negative. That's actually the classic motivation in a P/A person... but it wouldn't surprise me if they both exhibited those tendencies and it manifested itself to where they are right now.

My XH had perfect role models in the kind that became a personality disorder. He was instructed not to emote negatively, and scolded harshly if he did. He and his brother have great difficulty letting people know how they feel when the emotions are uncomfortable, and for my XH, he survived by avoiding conflict at all cost...

The example you gave about the shopping trip is also a very classic communication style issue and not anything that would indicate a personality disorder.

So, Mama... here's where I'm going to challenge you:

Thus, people treat me like a doormat because they know I cannot say NO.

I was listening to a syndicated psychologist the other day on the radio who has something to say about this very topic. She said that WE teach others how to treat us... so if we treat ourselves as doormats, others will likely return in kind. Saying no is the ultimate act of self love, if it's a true need and not a selfish desire to punish.

All relates to my childhood and never feeling like I was good enough in my Dad's eyes. Just wishing he would give me a compliment, just once, instead of always letting me know how much of a failure I am.

(((((Mama))))) I think you and my XH have similar experiences from childhood that are really inflicting harm in your ability to communicate effectively right now.

Oh, and because I haven't said so, that does NOT mean that your problems with your H are your fault or that what he's doing is acceptable. Far from that, my friend. So please know I'm NOT in his camp.

But I do think there are some really terrific insights here for you to use on bettering your own self esteem and communication style.

It took a D for me to make some excellent progress on this front. It took a lot of hard work, Mama. I'm not P/A... just plain old aggressive. So when he acted that way, I came out on the offensive and loaded for bear. I also wondered why he wouldn't be truthful with me.

The answer? DONG. I made it impossible for him to be honest with me because of how I reacted. I practiced my reaction and honed it for 6 months before I pointed out to him that I hadn't gotten angry with him by yelling or name calling... and he was genuinely stunned. So, what I'm saying is that I documented my progress before I waved the flag in his face.

Very gradually, I allowed controversial conversations to take place. In the beginning (well, for at least a year), I would begin the convo with, "I'd like to discuss something important with you. I realize that this is tough for both of us, but I'm going to ask you a question, and you can feel free to tell me no if you feel you can't fulfill my request. And I promise that I won't get angry with you for being honest." In other words, I gave him permission not to talk to me about whatever it was that was on my mind. By doing so, I verbally cued him into the realization that he had choices in communicating with me too. Mama, it worked like a charm. When he knew I had worked on my reactions and that he felt I was being truthful in my promise not to get angry with him for expressing his feelings, he slowly began to open up to me.

I no longer have to make those lead-in statements with him anymore. He trusts me. Occasionally, we have setbacks (the past continues to haunt him, especially when he's feeling very fearful) and I have to rein him in and start all over again. That's when I phone him back and let him know that I don't want to be angry with him anymore... and he listens.

Mama, last fall we had to go back to the basics. I asked him why he orchestrated the P/A event and he broke down and confessed... he told me that he was very unhappy with himself for not setting boundaries with another person, and it conflicted with a promise he had made to me and our D12... his unwillingness to let the other person know his plans (and his fear of disappointing them) led him to make a choice that hurt his daughter instead, and that made him angry and ashamed. He surprised me by asking me to help him figure out how things could have been averted. While things seemed very obvious to me, he was overcome by feelings that bombarded him from his childhood...

So, I've got a recommendation for you, my friend. I listened to a CD series a couple years ago that changed my life... and I thought at the time that I had learned everything I needed to know about anger and P/A behaviors. They are led by a Catholic priest on a mission, but the message is about anger and not from a biblical or Catholic perspective. I've since shared them with a slew of friends--many who are not Catholic--and have received VERY favorable reports on the material.

It was simply the best $35 investment I've ever made. The series is called Transcending Our Anger by Fr. Tom Allender. You can find them on his WEBSITE. I think you might feel a lot better about why you feel the way you feel and how to turn those thoughts into caring statements that open up the lines of communication with others. Even your cranky H.

I remind my XH all the time... "Let me own how I feel about your news. I can't promise not to be angry, but I can promise that I won't overreact or make things worse. I'll also promise you that with some processing, I'll be able to talk to you about this without punishing you."

Mama, if I can change, anyone can. If I can turn communications around, anyone can. And that's where Rob is completely right. Instead of trying to figure out how to confront your H, why not work on changing how you feel about yourself instead?

Practice setting healthy boundaries for yourself on small things--and enforcing them. For example, if someone calls you to ask for a favor and you're already committed to something else (and I don't care what that commitment is, it's a commitment), you pause and say, "Gee, Mary, I've already committed myself to something else then. Perhaps another time?" Learn how to make yourself feel better about your ability to take care of YOU... and the doormat perception will gradually lessen as you become stronger about the more important issues.

BTW, Rob, you've figured out that you had a choice in how you communicated the shopping trip too? "Honey, money is a little tight right now, and I'm feeling a little afraid of buying things that aren't completely necessary right now. I feel that shoes are one of those items, so can we discuss this before you go out and buy them?"

You own how you feel, you give them permission to disagree with you, and you find a solution. If she does it anyway, you'll just need to dig a little deeper to see why she doesn't feel your feelings are important enough to listen.

Hugs!

Betsey