Thanks for your support. My instincts are telling me to almost treat him like I would if his daughter or parent was ill. I know that's a bit extreme, but I just mean that if I were to back off now (ie turn the phone off and wait to return his calls) that it would not help us be close. But it's REALLY hard to tell when to do which, sometimes.
Your comment really struck me about his pain. Seems obvious, but I was so wrapped up in how i feel, I didn't think of it so plainly. It's easy to get wrapped up in frustration thinking he's being selfish and leading me along, but really, he doesn't want this pain, either. Yes, it's up to him to fix it for himself, but if I were him I'd probably be in the same quicksand.
Big time risky 180, unconditional love or a doormat…???
H came home from his trip away, I didn’t hear from him. I went to the house on Sat to get something I really needed. He wasn’t there, and after a long pause, I went in (he had told me weeks ago that would be ok if he wasn’t there, I hadn’t done it yet). Bad timing. Recently-supposed-former- ow’s stuff was there. She was visiting (not there right then). I got out right away. I was very shaken up. And I could have flipped out, waited til they got back and confronted with anger, but I remembered how awful things got after I blew up over something like this in Jan, I decided to leave him a voice message. I was friendly, strong and only a little sad (not angry - in the message). I said (basically): “Welcome back from your trip, hope it was a good one.I was wondering if there was something you’re not telling me, ‘cause I think she’s here, and I don’t really understand what you’re doing. (I told him how I knew) and I wouldn’t have gone if I had known… I also said that I loved him and was trying very hard to understand that this is all difficult and confusing for him, leave the door opne for us a little, but it’s hard to do right now, with this kind of thing… I am still your friend, just disappointed, and I don’t need you to you to call me back until you’re ready to.”
He called a few hours later (she had gone out). He was very upset (with himself only) and told me he wanted me to know that they ARE broken up and NOT getting back together. She had this ticket to come here 2 months ago (I don’t doubt that she did) , and she/they had not decided what to do with it until a few days before. They felt they had issues to resolve, talk about. He said he should have told me or should not have let her stay there because it would hurt me, him and us, even if I didn;t know… he was pretty emotional, told me how much he loved me, and was so sorry for what I am going through, and that he was hurting me. I did not get angry, and I said that if what he says is true, and they have things to resolve then DO IT. He said he would ask her to go stay with relatives, and I said it was up to him.
My staying calm had a profound effect - it blew us both away. He said he couldn’t believe how understanding I was being, kept saying he loves me, and will talk to me about all this very soon, he also said at that moment he had more respect for me than anyone else he’d known and I was on a huge pedestal. ( that wasn’t my goal, and I would prefer he SHOW these to me). He didn’t know why I was being so good to him. I said it was because he was my friend and important to me. Oddly enough, he opened up more in this short conversation then he had in a couple of weeks... we both cried a little and it seemed like we were on the same crazy rollercoaster for a second. I told him that what he’s going through is normal, and we’ll get through this, somehow (He was always the one saying this kind of thing before).
I felt pretty good after we hung up. And I actually had a pretty good weekend after that. Felt lighter. But I did go through some different feelings, anger, compassion, resentment, and fear… Just kind of stayed aware of them, but didn’t let them take me over.
So you can imagine that I am also wondering the flipside:
Did I do wrong not to put my foot down then and there?
My instinct say no, but it's risky, I know. I said here on this BB last week that I wanted to be supportive of him, and I know that there have to be limits to that, but I felt like I handled that in a way I can be proud of. Regardless of the outcome, now. I think I feel stronger.
Ok guys, thanks for listening, though it was long. I needed to vent and I hope you’ll tell me if you think I’m being an idiot here. Don't be shy
Lee - Sounds to me like you done good. Hard to maintain composure under these circumstances, ain't it? You did well in not showing him your anger. You're trying very, very hard, maybe too hard right now (?). Is it time to back waaaaay off for a bit?
Sounds like your H is talking the talk, but not walking the walk very well. The words coming out of his mouth and his actions seem to be a bit contrary at the moment. Does he, as Kent put it so eloquently to me, have you "gut-hooked"? Does he have ANY fear at all of losing you? You have done a great job of being supportive, and you CAN be proud of yourself. Might it be time to distance yourself a bit more, be more mysterious, less available? Remember, at this point, you don't have to go dark or dim for extended periods of time, a short time will usually do it. Especially for your own piece of mind.
I think if you'd have put your foot down then and there, it may have been interpreted as an ultimatum, and may have back-fired. He knows how you feel about it, now let him deal with it. Sometimes, it can be hard to find the balance between being supportive, and, for a lack of a better term, enabling. Sure, he's going through a lot of pain right now, but, hey, so are you. Don't vent your anger at him, but don't let him off the hook either. If he was really ready to dump the OW, he could have made a different choice about how things went down this weekend.
Remember, actions speak louder than words. Watch what he does, as well as listening to what he says. I don't mean to sound pessimistic. And these aren't all bad things, just part of the process.
Take care of yourself, my friend. It's quite a journey
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Your not nuts Lee, he is. JJ had it right. Back away and let him hunt you down. Don't let him find you too easy either. Make him do some pursuing of his own.
Hi guys. Lots of movement these last couple of days, thought I’d share…
I kept my distance from H from Sat until Monday night (which was easy because ow was still here until Monday am, anyway.) I took Monday afternoon off work to a) enjoy the sunshine b) center myself and c) be less accessible to H. He tracked me down early evening and was still reeling a bit from the “it’s over” talks with ow all weekend. Said he really wanted to talk to me, really appreciated how I reacted (or didn’t ) on the weekend, apologized and said he needed a bit more time to decompress, then we’d talk
I didn’t plan it, but because I had centered myself, I was different on the phone, more distant, and he started asking questions, getting nervous. I was friendly and pointed out the things I appreciated that he was doing, saying he loves me, etc… but that I didn’t see the actions matching the words. He said he was trying to get things worked out in his head before beginning the talks with me, and even spending time with me, because of a) his "not having all the answers yet" and b) he didn't think he deserves to spend time with me after all this. I told him I understood, but he was risking pushing me away, also. He asked me what he needs to do, and he came up with “maybe it was time to just “begin” talking , instead of waiting.”
I know this was pressure, and I didn’t mean it that way, I was just not in a mood to sugarcoat it. And I was gentle and genuine about it. I have rarely given any indication of giving up on us, so I guess it did scare him.
Anyway, we went for a long drive, talked. He told me he does find it hard to leave her, he loves us both, but that they decided that because he still loves me so much, and their relationship hasn’t been based in much that is real, that she doesn’t belong in this picture. I am still processing that.
We talked about a lot of important things, and it was good. We went for some drinks, and even had breaks in the seriousness for fun as we talked. Started to relax, and flirt with each other. Soon we were feeling like and acting like a couple madly in love- kissing, holding hands, staring at each other, smiling, saying “I love you” a lot. Even as we talked about how we went wrong before (weird) It was really good. We even had to leave after a while cause we couldn’t wait to be alone… walked home and had the best sex of our lives STILL thinking about it!
Really a memorable night. The next morning, he said he was feeling optimistic and wants to keep the dialogue open now. He got out the “after the Affair” book to start reading it. He’s been calling to say “I love you” and sending emails, etc… I tried today to keep distance (no emails or calls) and he showed up at my work at lunch.
I see that the important part is to watch for those signs of ACTION and also to give him space to deal with his ambivalence. I think the positive times really help.
And I’m also keeping notes of the things that we are doing differently (especially the other night). I was a lot more forward and decisive, and also free-spirited. He liked me being “in charge”. And we broke up the seriousness with playfulness, too. I told him he was sexy, which meant a lot to him. And I told him I recognized it was important to me to give, which was important to him to know. (I had been showing it, but not saying it- he needed to hear it!). And in return, he opened up a lot, seemed happy and relaxed.
Anyway, I am still processing it all, but mostly just really grateful for such a wonderful evening we had. The effect of it has lasted a few days now, and is doing us good.
(Sorry these are always long, will try to keep shorter-winded! )
LeeP
[This message has been edited by LeeP (edited 06-13-2001).]
[This message has been edited by LeeP (edited 06-13-2001).]
Lee - Great news!! Congratulations, I'm so happy for you. Ain't these feelings just wonderful?! It's amazing what just a slight bit of distancing can do at this point, isn't it? Sounds like you did and are doing just the right amount, keep up the good work!! Let him pursue you, you're worth the effort, and it sounds like he knows it. Glad you took some time for yourself, it gets to be much needed.
It's encouraging he's reading your "after the affair" book. I found out my W's starting to read it also, haven't really talked about it too much yet. I did bookmark a few pages, especially the one about ending the affair. She asked if I did that for her benefit, told her I did it for me, to help me understand what she may be going through. One thing I want to talk to her about is the part where it explains that, most of the time, it might not exactly be love for the OP, but more of a love for the way they felt when they were with them. I want to find out what good feelings she had with him, what things we could do to recreate some of those feelings in OR. Maybe something like this would help you with the "he loves us both" thing?
The positive times do seem to help, seems to make the not-so-positive times shorter and easier to deal with. Keep up the good work, you deserve the happiness!!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
JJ, I haven't asked him if he really is reading the book yet, he hasn't had time to do laundry! But I did the same thing, bookmarked pages, the ones about "deciding to decide" and not waiting until the ambivalance is 100% gone to begin the process.
I like your idea about asking what the positive feelings he had with her are, to use that to build on for OR. This brings me to another question. He has said I could ask anything now. And I think I need to make a list of questions about her and their R. What DO I really want to know? I'm trying to work that out.
We went to a movie last night, and had another very passionate night! Wow - this is addictive. A small side effect- I have noticed for myself that in the morning (s), I end up feeling a little blue (waking up in my house, but not being able to stay, etc..)
We didn't talk about any more serious stuff last night, and he brought it up that he noticed that and still wants to. We have a LOT to talk about. He said he wants the first step to be us getting back to being close and feeling safe with each other again.
Now, I admit that the first thing I thought of when he said that was not how realistic and honest that is, but "I wish he'd said I want to be husband and wife again under the same roof". No sooner had I thought that and he said "You are my wife, I haven't forgotten that." Guess I let it show. Gonna work harder on that.
Not much new, was a big week this week. All communications with H have been positive this week. I'm feeling really good about that, but you know, I STILL feel he rarely contacts me then, especially if he has his daughter there, which I understand, but it makes me feel alienated from his life.
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