I'm reading DR, but not sure when I'll get to this info, if it's in there at all. I've read enough here to figure that talking about your R (relationship) is typically bad. But, what about talking about the A (affair)?
In my particular case, W is out of town and meeting up with OM (actually more, if you've read my other threads). She told me she had certain things to say to him she had to do face-to-face, and then that they'd already agreed that when she came back they wouldn't talk for 3 months. I want to ask her how things went, and whether or not that 3 month deal still stands - partially out of concern for her emotional state, but mostly curiosity. Also, I think subconciously I'm looking to catch her in a lie, due to my current temptation to snoop and end up seeing them still talking. (I don't honestly have much hope for connecting with her emotional state, as she's completely walled that off from me and constantly has this happy facade on.)
As a rule of thumb "no R talk" means no affair talk, never raise the name/issue of the other person (op), never ask what is going on between your w and op - "act as if" the op doesnt exist - because to you he doesn't. He is a symptom of a problem in your marriage that's all. A symptom - like sneezing is to a nose infection.
Most likely she, in her own time, will tell you about what happened on her trip away and you will listen quietly and "validate" what she says. You don't need to agree or disagree with anything she says you just have to let her know it is safe to talk to her.
Hey Calm it's a good idea if you stick to one thread, people will catch up on your thread as they get to know you and it will all be in one place for them to read back over if they need to to offer advice or see where you are coming from.
This is a tough time, but you are doing really well.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Quote: Hey Calm it's a good idea if you stick to one thread, people will catch up on your thread as they get to know you and it will all be in one place for them to read back over if they need to to offer advice or see where you are coming from.
Makes sense - I run a few message boards for various purposes, and our general rule is "new topic, new thread"; but, I can see how here just about every post that's not a response is going to be related to your sitch (ie. same topic). I may start a new thread, as I'm trying to put together a good summary of my sitch and will stick to that thread.
What about general questions, though? Such as, I'd like to as what this "as if" is all about. I've tried to figure it out by posts, but haven't quite yet.
A differing view...from my perspective, if your wife had and affair that is now known, I think you have EVERY right to know all the dirt, including what took place when she went off to see this person to create the three month cooling off period.
Sorry, but her agreeing not to see this person for a period of three months is NOT ENDING the affair, and that in and of itself should be sending you some clear signals that it's time to see a very good divorce attorney, and when you do, take no prisoners.
If you need to talk about the affair to understand it, then she owes it to you to come completely clean on just went on, and how it happened in the first place. If she's not willing to do that, kick her to the curb.
Today is what counts, so make the most of what you have, rather than regret what might have been.
Quote: If she's not willing to do that, kick her to the curb.
Dragon, no offense, but that's really not what we do here. This site is for those who want to apply the principles that Michele Weiner-Davis outlines in her books Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy. It's about saving marriages. You may want to read the books (especially Divorce Remedy) or find another forum where your views would more closely align with the general philosophy of the group.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Quote: Sorry, but her agreeing not to see this person for a period of three months is NOT ENDING the affair, and that in and of itself should be sending you some clear signals that it's time to see a very good divorce attorney, and when you do, take no prisoners.
I certainly do not feel that not talking to him for 3 months is ending the affair. I even said to her when she told me about this plan, "I don't know if that is a good idea." - because it means she's not intending on ending anything, and "absense makes the heart grow fonder" and all that. I don't know that it is a *bad* idea - I just don't know that it's a good one. (I also have ZERO evidence from previous snooping [note: "previous"] that they even plan on enacting this three month hiatus.)
Quote: If you need to talk about the affair to understand it, then she owes it to you to come completely clean on just went on, and how it happened in the first place. If she's not willing to do that, kick her to the curb.
Like RB said, that's not what DB is about. I'm here to save my marriage, not make a quick decision to divorce, particularly when I've seen others in worse situations that have made it through. Also, believe me, I know quite a lot about the nature of the affair - probably more than she does, since she's deep in fantasy land. I think I'll skip the curb kicking for now and work on divorce busting.
This site, much like religion is not and ALL OR NONE scenerio...in short, one can embrace some, even most of the precepts of a particular religion, and not others...does that mean you stop going to church because you have a differing opinion or slant on one particular area of the churches structure?
Been through one divorce here, not really interested in going through the pain of another. However, that being said does not mean there are not firm lines in the sand that cannot be crossed. Do I think marriages can survive an affair by one or the other partner...ABSOLUTELY. That being said, I also believe that the partner who was cheated on has some rights, and that the one who had the affair has a duty and responsibility to do some things that might be uncomfortable for them, but necessary to restore trust in a relationship.
In the scenerio here, I shared my opinion...that is opinion is that a three month hiatus of the affair is not and end to the affair, and for the marriage to be saved, there has to be a CLEAN break of the outside relationship, and if the SO is not willing to do that, then someone needs to take some precautions...seeking out the services of a good divorce attorney does not mean the marriage is over...in fact, it actually could be used as a really good tool of leverage in bringing the cheating spouse to their senses, force them to open their eyes and evaluate their own behaviors and options.
SD
Today is what counts, so make the most of what you have, rather than regret what might have been.
Well, rest assured this "3 month hiatus" is no longer a factor. I have the utmost confidence that they have no current intentions of cutting off communcation, be it for three months, three days, or eternity. Apparently OM bought her a cell phone - I guess to keep their communications that much more secret (although there are other things she could do to keep their communications much more secret). On an ironic note, her regular cell phone is kaput due to babies doing something to it - even I can't figure out what happened to the thing. Can't say I'm too upset about that... except that I'll probably end up paying for a new one. Although, I'm tempted to tell her she can just use the one OM bought her. Yes, I know about this other phone due to on-going snooping. Can't stop. It's all the addiction and obsession everyone says it is. My IC says I should ask W to change her email password. I think I'm going to have to do that. I just worry about a flood of "I know this and I know that" coming out with it.
On a side note, W just came back with our two girls from a 9 day trip. I was overjoyed to see my girls - I really could have cared less to see W, particularly with all the negative vibes coming off her at the airport, on the drive home, and then at home. Sure, she's beat from the trip, but damn is she being negative. No doubt partially (maybe mostly) because she's away from OM, since they spent the last 4 nights of her trip together. Oh, and her internet connection on her laptop is not working. Mine's just fine. She probably thinks it's something I did on purpose - which it's not... this time, at least. What's interesting is she could just go to her desktop computer and chat OM up just fine there, but she's not doing so.
Here I sit, on the other sofa, not 10 feet from her, not knowing wtf to do. She's not much for conversation, right now, and she's not been much for anything involving physical proximity for some time. Figure I'll just let her be and go about my business... of which there is very little at such a time of night, except futz around on my laptop... in the livingroom... on the sofa... not 10 feet away from her. Oh, the agony. Wish I could just go grab DR and keep reading.
With all due respect to your "different" opinion, I have to echo RB's sentiment.
Quote: does that mean you stop going to church because you have a differing opinion or slant on one particular area of the churches structure?
No, but if you are a christian and you decide that you don't believe in the 10 commandments or Jesus, then I suppose you may want to investigate another religion.
Quote: I think you have EVERY right to know all the dirt, including what took place when she went off to see this person to create the three month cooling off period.
Again, I agree that there are MANY different ways to go about this kind of thing, but asking about, or digging up "dirt" on the affair is not only a "different slant" but the opposite of what DB is all about. DB is about focusing on self and not letting the affair rule your life. If they choose to continue it, give it time to either die or not. The point is to work on yourself, not on the affair, so that IF/WHEN they come back, they are comming back because there is something to be back for, not because they felt forced to.
Quote: Sorry, but her agreeing not to see this person for a period of three months is NOT ENDING the affair, and that in and of itself should be sending you some clear signals that it's time to see a very good divorce attorney, and when you do, take no prisoners.
Ok, this does not jive well with your later post where you soften up a bit. "Take no prisoners"? You are clearly advocating an agressive stance, again, perfectly valid, but opposite of DB in most cases.
Quote: If you need to talk about the affair to understand it, then she owes it to you to come completely clean on just went on, and how it happened in the first place. If she's not willing to do that, kick her to the curb.
Um, she OWES him nothing. She may CHOOSE, because of their history, guilt, or sudden honoring of her vows, to tell him certain things but she OWES him nothing but a divorce in the event that she's unhappy. Your entire approach is to try to force her to comply with her marriage vows and short of that, kick her a$$ out. Again, that MAY work, but it's not at all compatible with DB.
Quote: in fact, it actually could be used as a really good tool of leverage in bringing the cheating spouse to their senses, force them to open their eyes and evaluate their own behaviors and options.
Leverage, force, tools. Again, you are advocating the "other" way of doing this, through heavy handed tactics that often backfire in my experience. Your experience may be different, which I fully accept.
All I am saying is that how you deal with an affair is NOT a religion, nor is DB, but these few fundamental ideals that we try to follow here, no snooping, no relationship talks, and no focusing on the affair, are all things you want him to dismiss in favor of things that rank up there at the top of the "don't do" list in DB.
