JJ- I'm glad you're going to the counsellor together. (I've never gotten to do that with H) You don't know why she asked for it? You might want to just find out the topic, and try to not overload the session? Just MHO. Good luck, friend!
I've been doing a lot better. Going back to basics, DBing 101. Detaching. I'll update on my thread- come on over and see my list of baby steps! ( really trying to be positive, patient and solution-focused)...
W finally told me about being in contact with om again. I overheard her talking to him on the phone Thursday, I didn't say anything, and I didn't leave the area. I wasn't gonna be chased away. Sounded like he was arguing with her about something, making her feel like crap, putting her on the spot about some things. He was DEFINITELY not DB'ing!
In bed that night, she told me that she felt good, better than she has in a long time, that she is finally through with him. That it was like it said in the papers I left for her, how any contact starts the "getting-over-it" process over again. She went to his parent's house where he stays (she had some business with them), she saw him, and the confusion started. She realizes that I was right, that she shouldn't have any contact with his family, either. That she realizes she doesn't even LIKE him anymore, let alone have any good feelings for him. That she's sorry she hurt me again. Asked me if I had anything to ask or say, I said not now, maybe in a day or two. Just that I was glad she felt better about things now. (I knew that it was better to just keep my mouth shut for the time being).
When I left the house the next morning, I took my overnight supplies with me, wasn't sure if I was coming home that night. She sent me a couple of text messages that day, I answered them briefly. I DID go home, she saw me carry in my supplies. She asked if I had planned to stay somewhere, told her when I left the house this morning, I wasn't sure what I was gonna do. We got interrupted, and the subject never came up again.
The weekend went well, I got up way earlier than her and was busy. We ended up spending Saturday together, just shopping, talking about stuff (non-OR), and spending alone time. On our drive, she was being goofy, said how she felt so great, how she felt so free, that om wasn't in the picture anymore. Once again, I just told her I was glad, and leaned over and kissed her. Sunday was S's b-day, we cleaned the house, and had a party for him. She commented how nice it was to have her family over again, how it didn't really happen much the whole time I was gone.
She's been great, been very loving, and very open with me. Very physically intimate, and in a closer way than it's been for a LONG while. She told me that she saw om briefly somewhere yesterday, just said hi, and didn't talk to him. She said it felt nice to see him without having any kind of feeling at all, one way or the other. (Which I think may be good, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy, right?) I've been remaining "lovingly distant". I'm still pretty gun-shy, but I can feel in her heart she's over him, or at least WANTS to be, and wants OR to work. Now it's just a matter of her staying that way. I've decided to save any talk of this, of my fears and feelings, until the C session. Taking it one day at a time, and trying to build a stronger base with our positive interactions. I'd like for her to write a final good-bye letter to him, one for both of us to share, and may bring that up in the session. I'm not sure what else I want to bring up, I have about a week to figure it out. I DO know that I don't want to go through another of her "withdrawal" periods, and I need for her to be VERY aware of it.
Open arms and open eyes. Still gonna stick with my "recipe for success".
Hope everyone else is doing good!
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 07-31-2001).]
JJ
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Just read your thread. I'm not here to offer advice, just wanted to tell you you have been doing a great job. I hope to be on this forum soon enough.
There are some things in your posts that sent chills up my spine. Some of it is like reading my own story. I can't believe how these patterns emerge in so many lives.
Hey, gang. Not a lot going on, just kinda normal BS. Having to stay pretty heavily detached, trying to sort out if some things are W's problems, my problems, or OUR problems. Right now, in her mind, it belongs solely to me. Issues with the kids again, she's quit talking to me about them, asking me for my opinions, yet wants me to agree with all she's doing. Having a hard time with it, I'm having to choke back a lot of opinions, and compromise on some of my boundaries. Things are digressing to the way they were before, some of the old patterns are re-emerging. The kids don't see W & I as a united front, and she feels she has to choose between me and them. And they know how to play that game all too well. She's not into talking about it, and is very defensive no matter how I approach the discussion. My doing something different is to just let things be, to detach a lot, but then it gets back to me not being involved, not wanting to be part of the family. Her feeling that I just hate them. Round and round. Only 39 more hours until our session with the C, I think I can make it until then. Definitely need some help on the communication issues.
I had to sit down and journal some thoughts I had about some things I've learned. I'll share them with you, and you can tell me if you think they make any sense to you.
1) Just because something's important to me doesn't mean it's gonna be or HAS to be important to anyone else. Everyone has different priorities, and they're not always gonna match mine.
2) Just because something's important to someone else doesn't mean it's gonna be or HAS to be important to me.
3) Keep your expectations low (or even non-existent), and your hopes realistic.
4) People usually only want your advice or opinion when what you have to say validates what they've already done, or have decided to do. Keep it to yourself! Even when asked directly, most people don't want to hear about it unless you agree with them.
5) Only give to people what you don't expect to be returned. This goes for both material and spiritualistic things. This helps to keep the giver / taker syndrome in better balance. Less disappointments, less unrealistic / unfulfilled expectations, and more peace in life.
6) Just because people don't do things your way doesn't mean it's the wrong way. It's just a different way.
7) God's will, in God's way, in God's time. Don't interfere with his plans for other people.
I'm not completely sure if these thoughts are realistic or pessimistic. Or if it's just part of a pity-party I'm having for myself. They DID help me get through the past few days, though. That's one part about detaching and distancing, it gives you time away from the drama, and gives you a chance to reflect on YOUR "stuff". Makes my head hurt sometimes!!
JJ
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Sorry to hear that things are difficult on the kids front. I am not sure what kind of problems you've been having with them, (and I certainly am in no place to be offering opinions) but your post reminded me a little of an example given in DB book - About the couple who fought over the stepdaughter and so one of them moved positions drastically to show the united front, (which seemed risky because it didn't match their opinions.) But in the end, it changed the dynamic quite a bit. I don't know-maybe you've tried that before. I can see why you'd want to wait right now until the C session. It's really good that you can SEE when they are returning to old patterns.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - It looks like an effective list that supports controlling your REACTIONS.
thanks for all the help you've been giving me, I feel like I should not be mucking about in anyone else's situation, considering how messed up mine is but I am following you.
Well, only about 18 hours until the C session, and I've made a decision. I'm gonna sit back and see how things start out, and if they head in the wrong direction, I'm not just gonna shake the fence, I'm gonna tear that SOB down. I've pretty much had it. I need for her to commit to the M, for us BOTH to do the things it'll take to get headed on the right path, or there will be nothing further to discuss. She can move into the spare bedroom and start looking for another place to live, I'll stay in the house and fix it up to be sold.
Something's up, she's distant, hiding things, lying, avoiding me, stopped the I love you's, etc. She placed a call to om's house yesterday. Whether she talked to him or his parents doesn't matter. She "went out with the girls" late last night, didn't come home until around 4 am, left again at 7 am. I'm drawing my line in the sand, and either way it goes will be a relief to me. No contact with om, and get rid of the secret life and the lies. There's too much other stuff going on in our house, and we can either work through it together, or she can leave and work things out on her own.
Lee - I have tried what you suggested, doing the 180 on the kid issues, but to be honest with you, it was probably too little, and too late. The best that I can muster up right now is to do nothing. The problems are immense and overwhelming. My 14 y.o. step-D attempted suicide a little over a year ago, has been in and out of re-habs, and has generally screwed up enough to where the state may be placing her in foster care within the next few weeks. She hates me, I seem to be a threat to her being in control of the house and her mother. My 12 y.o. step-S was caught selling pot at school, and is on a strict probation for the next 5 years. My W has had the legal charges on her dropped pending her successful completion of counseling for prescription drug dependency. I'm sure that you can see that detachment is a very necessary part of my life right now. Why I can't expect too much from OR. And why I NEED the reassurance that the healing of our marriage is also one of HER ultimate goals. I am beginning to realize the limitations of my physical and emotional strength.
And I always appreciate your input. You help me to see things in a different light at times.
Kent - There was a period of almost a month since I've been back that W and I could talk, negotiate, and present a united front to the kids. This is what I could classify as a trouble-free time concerning the kids. This broke down somewhere, and is back to where it was before I left. Not quite sure of the cause, or how to get her to buy back into the program.
With MY W, I don't think it's so much of a matter of control as it is of pride. She's having a lot of counselors and "experts" telling her now some of the same things I've said to her in the past. She's told me a lot of times lately that I was right, and I don't do the "I told you so" thing. She's feeling like a failure when it comes to the kids, and has a lot of shame. She's the "mother bear" when it comes to defending them, and wants to be their friend. She's very stuck in the "try and try again" mode, I think to prove to everyone that the things she's done are the right things to do. Any help she's given seems to be misconstrued as her being controlled. She's overloaded right now, and wants to run away from everybody and everything, somewhere that nobody "expects" anything from here. It doesn't matter if those expectations are real or perceived, 'cuz they are very real to her. She's mentioned in the past moving a couple of states away to live with her brother, but decided against it when we started getting back together. Maybe that's what she needs to do now. It might cause less damage on OR in the long run, and be better for her.
I'd ask for you to wish me luck, but I think that either direction this goes will be ok. Will let you know what happens.
Open arms and open eyes.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
really trying to be positive, patient and solution-focused)...