Thanks, Neely, your kind words are much appreciated.
I think W will be ok, too. Not real sure how SBT her new C is, I may need to nudge some things in a direction concerning this part. Old C was, W really likes her, so it may not take a big push to get going in this direction.
One killer homework thing old C had us doing was taking that "Don't sweat the small stuff" book, and having us read it out loud to other. We can then discuss how we feel about what was written, how it applies to us, what we can learn from it, etc. Good way to learn about stuff, and each other. Opens up some good communication. W likes it, and it seems to be a very SBT oriented assignment.
I think you're right about avoiding the on-the-edge talks. Falls right into that self-fulfilling prophecey category, very powerful. BTW, this was another area discussed in that book, and was a pretty eye-opening realization for W.
Thanks again. Will write later about my C session this morning. Still kinda absorbing it!
JJ
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Well, the session with the C yesterday went ok. My tests turned out pretty "clean", nothing way out of whack. Did show a lack of caring for myself (i.e. excercise, smoking, nutrition, etc.). Some hypersensitivity, inferiority, and personal discomfort. I guess there were really no big surprises, not sure if some of these things were always there or if they're a part of the present situation. Either way, these are issues I need to address.
C couldn't tell me much about W's test. I asked her if there's anything I should be careful of doing or not doing in dealing with W, what would be some of the best things for me to do. She told me the best thing I could do is to take care of myself. To do things to strengthen myself. I'm living with a couple of very strong personalities, and it would be easy for me to get sucked into everything going on. Take care of me, set an example for everyone of a healthy person. As the head of the household, to be an example of strength and stability. Does any of this sound familiar from things we've all read on this board? I guess I know what I need to do.
Monday went ok, we talked a bit. The conversation got around to the D getting a job, got around to her baby-sitting, which I have mixed feelings about. It then ended up to be for OM's nephew, and it started to turn heated. I didn't like that idea a bit. She left the room, came back in, and I asked her if she wanted to talk about this now or later. I turned off the tv, gave her my full attention. She went on about how his family were decent people, OM was the black sheep, she would like to help them out. I told her I felt uncomfortable with it, it would be a reason for chance contacts. When I talked, she kept interupting, so I said "W, you want me to tell you when things are bothering me, not to hold it inside. When you don't let me talk, I seems that how I feel and think aren't important". She apologized, and let me talk. Told her I didn't want to tell her what she should or shouldn't do. Went through all the feelings I had concerning the idea. Told her I wasn't sure how I would feel or what I'd do if this plan actually happened. Told her that I would like to discuss it some more with her before any promises or plans were made. She said that she wasn't used to having to include anyone in on her decisions, and admitted to making some pretty crappy choices lately. Told her that was one of the problems we both had, not discussing things that affected both of us, and I would like to change that. She was agreeable with this. I'm sure this issue will come up again. If nothing else, it was a positive step in us talking about things that are uncomfortable. I feel good about that.
JJ
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Things are going ok. Went to a bball game last night with a bud, last minute thing. Called W and didn't really ask about going, just told her that's where I'd be.
Seems like W's been distancing a bit, so I'm doing the same. She's starting to ask questions and make comments about things I did while we were separated. I'm trying to be a little vague, but being honest when she asks specific questions. She asked again about the call from a lawyer's office that was on my phone log. She's having a problem with a LF I had, this is a topic that's coming up more and more. Is this a good sign, that she's worried about that relationship? She did get a little pissy about it last night, about why she should feel so guilty about what she did when I was seeing someone else. I've decided to be honest with what I tell her (best policy, right?). It was a friendship/support relationship, I guess what might be considered an EA. It may have eventually turned into something more, but it didn't.
She's asking questions about what I've done the times I left when she's disappeared recently. She's becoming more and more curious about my life, and is thinking I'm hiding many things from her. She's pretty stuck on some things that happened in the way past, we need to put some of these things to bed, and let them rest.
I'm not quite sure if she's searching out for things I've done to help her justify her actions, or if she's a bit scared about my feelings on OR right now. Will try out the list suggestion that Kent gave to Lee on her thread. And keep my eyes open, and my nose clean!!
Any thoughts on this?
JJ
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Hey gang, just checking in. Not a whole lot happening, just mostly good stuff. W and I are talking a lot, some OR stuff, some not. We're learning a bit more about each other everyday, finding out that in many ways, we're a lot alike.
W's been working some, not much pay, but it's been great for her self-esteem. Even she's noticed the difference.
I was re-reading the goals I set when I was doing the KLA group, and I see that most of them have been realized. I haven't directly shared these with W, so there's some proof that one person can cause changes in a relationship. I've been much better at not avoiding conflict, not letting things fester inside of me, and it's really made a big difference in our relationship, and my sanity. W's noticed these changes, and has commented on them many times. Some of the issues that would have been major in the past now seem relatively small, and are easily worked out. W's said that God puts people together for a reason, and that we're good for each other, we each help to balance each other.
OM's pretty much out of the picture. W's been excellent about letting me know when there's any contact lately. He left some flowers by her car last week, she brought them in and put them in a vase. I made no comment about it, pretty tough to do, and they were only in the house for about 2 days. He showed up where she works one day, being sad and pitiful. This didn't go over well with her, she sent him on his way, and asked him not to come there again. He keeps driving nails into his own coffin, and I'm loving it!!
I've found a little something I can do that really means a lot to W. She loves when I read to her in bed. She says she loves the sound of my voice, it comforts her, helps her to relax, keeps her mind from racing with problems when she lays down. I must be pretty boring, she usually falls asleep as I'm reading to her! She's been sleeping well through the night, and gives me a wonderful smile and an "I love you" when I kiss her goodbye in the morning. This is really special to me, she's still kinda sleeping when she does this, which makes it seem more like it's really from her heart.
All in all, life is good right now. And it seems like it's getting better all the time. I'm a happy guy!
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 07-05-2001).]
JJ
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Your post was so very peaceful-sounding! I'm very happy for you. Thanks for this, a nice way to start the day.
It's so sweet that you're reading to her at bedtime . I wanted to tell you, though, that if your W is falling asleep when you do that, I'm willing to bet it's not because you're boring at all- but because she feels safe, at the very least. My H loves it when I do that when he's driving us somewhere- he takes it as a big compliment.
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water…….
Things have been going GREAT for the past couple of weeks. W's been very loving, with cards, phone calls and messages, etc. I noticed a change in her mood Thursday evening. She started becoming more distant, the I love you's stopped, and she became more secretive about her whereabouts. Curiosity got the best of me, and I checked our phone bill on-line. Sure enough, she's been in contact with OM again. She even gave him an older pre-paid phone we had, haven't used for a while, with the same number. There must have been a pretty heavy message on her voice-mail, she listened to it about every hour through the night the other night. I know, a thousand lashes for snooping. She had promised to tell me whenever she talked to him, and I just needed to know if she could be honest with me. Obviously not, so far. I needed to know if my instincts were right, if I know her moods as well as I think I do.
There was a lot of tension in the air last night. She was out doing things (who knows what), so I went out, too. She was in the shower when I got home. I went to bed, she was staying up to do some house work, she couldn't sleep. (She didn't sleep much the night before, either, and took off sometime early that morning.) I got out of bed, told her I hated the tension in the air, I'd like to clear it up. In years past, I would have avoided any confrontation about it, but I need to get things out in the open now. My 180. She gave me a funny look, said she was too tired right now. I told her it was important to me, and I'd like to talk soon. She just kind of shrugged it off, and I went back to bed. Decided I didn't want to be around there, took a shower, and left. Packed up my toothbrush and stuff, told her I'd like to talk after she got some rest, kissed her goodbye, and left. I guess I ran again, but I needed to chill-out for a bit.
Haven't heard from her at all today. There's a dinner at her parent's house tonight, so I'll get home in time to take a shower and go up there. Do my best acting-as-if, not bring anything up. I'll take my own car, and probably leave a bit early to go see a movie. By myself.
I'm thinking this is a case of things going too far, too fast? I'm beginning to HATE this f*****g game. It IS getting a little easier every time, though. I'm getting kinda scared that I'm getting TOO good at detaching, too used to doing it, and the good feelings I have for her will disappear. Have to be careful of the self-fulfilling prophecies, I guess. Time for dimness. She has a session with her C on Monday, we'll see what that brings, if anything. Guess I just needed to vent a little.
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 07-21-2001).]
JJ
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The rollercoaster can be harder to deal with when the bumps become fewer. They tend to catch you off gaurd. Focus on the progress and do what needs to be done.
I traded in the roller coaster for the long winding road. I still keep my eyes peeled for the sharp curves so I can keep at least two wheels on the road. It also helps to slow down a bit. Just ease the foot off the expectation pedal a tad.
Well, gang, don't know if I pulled a major backslide, or if this qualifies as doing something different. All I know is that I could no longer act-as-if nothing was going on (W was doing enough of that for both of us).
The dinner at her parents house went fine, hugged her when I got there, but no kiss. Visited with her family, left after a couple of hours, and went to a movie by myself. When I told her where I was going, she said she'd like to see the movie, too, but probably wouldn't be able to stay awake.
She was gone when I got home, out with a girlfriend (she really was), home fairly early. Didn't talk much that night, put some sunburn lotion on her, and that was about it.
Wrote her a note that night, left it in her car for when she went to church (don't think she really went there, but she left the house for about 4 hours anyway). Simply wrote that I have felt a change in her spirit. That I thought there was something going on in her life, something important, that she wasn't sharing with me. That I wanted her to trust me with it, to share with me what's so heavy on her mind.
Got no response from that, she was gone here and there throughout the day. She got home that evening, I was asleep. I woke up, talked with her a bit, she was still acting as if nothing was happening. I did the same. She read to me out of our don't sweat the small stuff, part of her/our C homework. Chapter happened to be about being the first one approach others to heal relationships. Funny timing, isn't it. I read her a favorite book until she fell asleep.
This morning, left her a note that I love her, hope her day goes well. Here's where I either blew it, or let her "subtly" know that I knew what was going on. I had some pages from a recovering from infidelity article from the marriage builder's website, and high-lighted some key areas for her. These were the things that pertained to saying the final good-byes to the lover, how healing the marriage can't really progress without this happening. How it needs to be done by letter, not in person or on the phone, and how the betrayed spouse should read it and approve of it. How the straying spopuse will justify staying in contact with the om/ow, and how hurtful this is to the betrayed spouse. About how the straying spouse ends up living 2 different lives, with the other spouse on the major end of the deceit. This may have been a very controlling thing to do, but screw-it. I don't want to play this part of the game anymore. I don't want to quietly sit back, and let her think it's acceptable to treat our marriage this way.
I DID send her a phone text message later, said I love you, W. I want us both to heal. I want our marriage to thrive. I want us to be partners and best friends.
I haven't really TOLD her what to do, have I? I tried to let her know I knew what's going on, without making threats or accusations, tell what I wanted, and that I still love her. I'm pretty sure this is gonna backfire in my face, but I needed to let it out, and am prepared for the consequences. I guess the doing something different part is I'm staying calm about it, and not just letting things go without addressing it in some way. I'm not questioning where she's going and who she's with, just letting her know I'm not blind to it. That I'm not going to back away from a confrontation like I may have in the past. I know this goes against making her feel comfortable and safe with me, but, oh well. Maybe she's a little TOO comfortable right now. There's a lot of other crap going on in our lives that I've been supporting her on, and now I need her support on this. I've been giving a lot, and my taker is kicking in on this issue. I'm prepared for quite a few days of darkness and severe detachment coming up. We'll see how well this works, or doesn't work.
BTW, blast away at me if you think I really screwed this up! As I'm re-reading this, I can see too much emotional reaction on my part. Should have held off for a little, but I didn't. I DO feel better, in a way. I didn't want to just do nothing this time.
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 07-23-2001).]
JJ
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How about this one for something different. "Hun, I luv you but it's time to sh## or get off the pot. Give him up or move in with him. Take all the time you need from next weeks schedule to make a decision." Then dimness.
Bet you don't feel so bad about your backslide now, do ya.
I've been following your posts. We're in pretty similar shark infested waters. Personally, I don't see it as a backslide. There was no ultimatum, just delivery of information. Breaking off with om's appears to be VERY difficult. My w has done it a number of times and always seems to somehow reconnect. I'd say watch her reaction real carefully. If she gives any positive feedback about the marriagebuilder material, give her another small nugget. If she doesn't let it pass in silence. You've made your point and I'm sure Kent is right....distance. Such a delicate balance of approaching and distancing at this stage!
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