JJ, You knew she is still confused. Stop looking in her F###ing journal. You should see what I wrote in mine. You are in a one day at a time mode right now so stop trying to plan the future. Let go of it for now.
Do not push the joint sessions. Let them happen when the time is right. If W is still a mess, they will appear to be an attack to your W.
You posted that there have been lots of good things going on. Don't be surprised that W is confused about the good times as well as the not so good times. Revel in the good times for yourself. Let her see that you are enjoying life.
Your punishment for snooping is??????
Lets see???????
Scotch!
Lots of it!
Single Malt!
Very Cold!
and a good friend to lend you a shoulder.
Don't get so caught up in W that you forget about you.
Kent
[This message has been edited by KentS (edited 05-29-2001).]
I would just like to add that when you snoop, you always find what you are looking for. And that ain't good. It makes it harder to get over resentment. Last time, I stayed at the house, I refused to be pulled in like I had been before. I feel that it has made for a better R.
Kent - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I DO need to keep out of the journal! It was left out totally in the open, crying out my name, almost like she wanted me to see it. I shouldn't have taken the bait. It was a backslide. I will take my punishment like a man! Is it too early to start now? It must be noon somewhere!
I'm getting too wrapped up in the R, trying to help her through her other issues, and I need to take a time-out for me. I think she knows this better than I do. I plan on making tommorrow night a boy's night out. It's been a while, probably TOO long. I've been avoiding doing it, because it was a bad habit that I did too often in the past, and I let it get out of hand. Before, it was more of a way to avoid the relationship issues. Maybe now I can do it with more of an attitude of enhancing the relationship?
I think I also need to take the advice that her C gave to her, and write down 5 positive things that happen everyday. Keep track of the good things, and focus less on the bad. You're right, day by day mode. The future is too big right now, there are still issues about what's going on with the kid's, her court case, whether she's going to jail, whether she's going to move out of the state for a while (or longer), whether we keep the house, etc., etc. Much too overwhelming at this point. I can very well empathize with how confused she is.
It's hard to keep perspective on the difference between not worrying about it, letting things happen as they may, or just ignoring it. I guess it is a matter of enjoying each good time as it comes along, and truly appreciating it.
At this time, I'm not sure how much to detach, how distant to be, how disinterested to be. She does seem to be drawing closer to me, to us, daily, and I'm not sure if I should change anything at this time. If making her think that there's a chance should could lose me would draw her to focus more on OR issues, or draw her closer to OM. Or maybe to keep my patience, not be selfish, and let her work on her issues some more. As I'm writing this, I'm thinking my final thought is probably the solution for now.
Thanks for the reality-check, my friend.
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 05-30-2001).]
JJ
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I agree with Kent, you gotta stay outta that journal for your own sanity. Who knows what frame of mind she was in when she wrote that. She may of written it down just to get it out of her head and an hour later her thoughts and mood could have done a complete 180.
I think one hard thing about detaching when we've been doing this as long as most people on this thread is that we almost know too much in a way now. I really understand how my h is going to react or respond becuase I've learned it by watching the same thing on this board. I understand what I'm feeling too. Sometimes, for just a few seconds I wish I was blissfully ignorant again .
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about everything that I knew my H and I were going through and what was normal and why he was acting this way and that way. And at the end of the conversation, my friend pointed out that she just heard me describing how and why everything was happening to my H, but she hadn't heard me once say "this is what I want or need." I think something clicked at that moment and I realized I was still putting way too much effort into this, so he didn't have to put any.
You're doing good. Try to relax and detach a little and don't forget about yourself in the process.
Kent, IMP, Heidi - Thanks for your replies. I just had a light begin to come on, and things are a little clearer to me now. As I was reading through some other threads, I ran across this from Cathy47 (Kent was there with his words of wisdom, too)….
When you stop wondering what your next "move" should be is when you will have detached. Your continued questions and attempts to understand what you can do to save your marriage is evidence that as hard as you are trying you have not truly detached.
This was something I knew, but I guess had forgotten. I've been heading back towards "passively controlling" my situation. In my "great detaching moment" a few months back, I found that I began to let go of controlling people, situations, and outcome. This was the point where I found my freedom. This was also the point I found my W drawing closer back to me. I found a way to change myself to make my life better, and may have been backsliding into some old bad habits. I never really considered myself a control-freak, but discovered that parts of me may have been. After letting that go, I found a great peace, letting things happen as they will, controlling only MY actions. Helping people only when they wanted my help, not when I thought they needed it.
The snooping may have been a way to "stay on top of the situation", when, in reality, I could be letting it run over the top of me. Guess I had a major brain fart. Thanks for getting me thinking outside of myself again.
For some strange reason, I've kept a couple of cards and letters I found that my W had written to OM. These were very intimate, and very painful for me to discover, and bring back a lot of hurt whenever I think about them. Not sure WHY I was saving them, maybe under the pretense of someday W and I would be able to talk about it, she could tell me how sorry she was about it, she was out of her head, won't ever do it again. Well, that's a bulls**t reason to keep them. If she ever found out I had them or even knew about them, it would bring her a lot of unnecessary pain, and would set us back a hundred years. I'm thinking they deserve a good cremation tonight. Time to move beyond that.
Heidi - You may be right about her thoughts and moods changing after writing what she did. Lord knows I've done that often enough! As I said, her actions weren't matching up with her words, and I'm more inclined to believe what she DOES on a consistent basis, rather than what she says or writes on occasion.
Regarding what you talked about almost knowing TOO much, you may be right. I have to keep reminding myself that when I think I KNOW everything, that's about the time I cut myself off from learning anymore. Bad situation, makes it easy to get caught flat on your feet. Sometimes, I like to say "Ignorance is bliss, and I'm a happy guy!!!!"
It's good to have friends to help show you the light. Thanks!!
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 05-30-2001).]
JJ
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I am soooooo pissed off right now. W went out with a couple of her single friends last night, and never made it home. I really didn't want her to go, she could feel the vibes, but I didn't tell her NOT to go. The choice was hers. I did ask her to give me a call if she was going to be extremely late, or decided to spend the night at her friend's house. I'm having a hard time with her doing this, she doesn't do it often, but I think that a married person has no business running around bars with single people. For some reason, I don't particularly like this friend, she is VERY recently divorced, and was around quite a bit this past year, enabling my W in her irresponsible phases. She would lie for her in a heartbeat.
Last time I talked to W was around 11:30 last night, said she was drinking water, and would be home soon. Well, either her f***ing cell phone battery went dead again (tired of hearing THAT crappy excuse), or she just turned her phone off. Called the friend she went out with about 2:45, she said W just left a little bit ago.
I left the house early this morning and came in here to work. I had to leave the house, I'm not sure if I could hold things together if I were to face her right now. I'm wondering what the hell's going on. I don't know if I should be worried that something's happened to her, or just flat out pissed. She can't be with OM, he's still in jail. I even drove by his house just to check, and her car wasn't there.
I left her a message on her phone about an hour ago, said I hope she was ok, I'm worried, please give me a call to let me know she's alright.
I'm tossing around what I should do. If I just let it go, act like nothing's happened, will I be teaching her that this is acceptable behavior, that she can do this again whenever she wants? I'm leaning towards confronting her, telling her that I don't deserve to be treated this way. That if she wants to be single, do the things that single people do, not have to account to anyone for her actions, then she can file the D papers tomorrow. Then she can go do whatever she wants, and be with whomever she chooses. That when she goes out and stays out all night, I feel anxious, worried, and angry. That I'm not comfortable enough in our new relationship to accept this, and it hurts me like hell when it happens.
In the old days, I probably would have not said anything, and just been pissed at her for a couple of days. I DO think I need to confront her on this, but need to find a way to say it so it doesn't sound like I'm trying to control her actions. She might be defensive or humble or apologetic, I need to figure out the scenarios for all these cases. I need to set a boundary here.
We were supposed to have a date this weekend, go see a movie we both wanted to see. It didn't happen last night, don't know if it's gonna happen today. I don't really feel like being around her right now. Besides, I didn't sleep well last night, and don't know if I could make it all the way through a movie.
Thanks for letting me vent. Wish me luck.
JJ
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Just got a call from W, I let it go to v-mail. "Hi, I'm home. Heard you were busy calling everybody last night. Well, give me a call." As she was hanging up, heard step-D in the background saying "that wasn't a very nice thing...." Click.
Decided I'm going to wait a couple of hours to call her back, let her know what time the movie starts, and tell her she can meet me there if she wants to go. It'll be up to her. We'll take it from there.
The positive thing is I'm glad she's ok. This is quite a relief to me. It'll be much, much easier for me to think things through now. I was very, very worried.
P.S. She just called back (20 minutes later), apologized, said she didn't mean to worry me or make me mad. She thought I was going to bed anyway. She a big girl, she can take care of herself.
Should I not have worried? Or be concerned? Is the alien peaking it's head out again, or am I just trying to be controlling, and need to WAY detach some more?
[This message has been edited by Jamesjohn (edited 06-03-2001).]
JJ
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You need to show her with your actions that she does not have you gut hooked. If she feels this is true, she will be able to jerk you around as she pleases.
***************************************** I really didn't want her to go, she could feel the vibes, but I didn't tell her NOT to go. The choice was hers. ******************************************* This is the work of a controller. Gotta stop this crap!
I think you should try a little dimmness on her. Start going out yourself. Start getting a life that does not revolve around her.
When she pulls this crap, I would not call her at all. I don't care how worried I am at this point. Even if you had to wait for days to hear from her. Then I might wait another day or 2 before calling her back. Distance JJ, Distance!
You have more work to do on you anyway and you just made me realize I have some to do on me as well.
******************************************** Is the alien peaking it's head out again, or am I just trying to be controlling, and need to WAY detach some more? ********************************************
JJ,
Kent has good advice that I also need to take right now (as is usually the case )
I think regarding your question, it could be both, and just another blip in the radar to get through... A test. Is it a trust issue? I would probably feel just like you do, and then come here asking the same things. I thought about it and there's a few angles here that maybe you could think about: is W going to want to give up this friend or going out? If not, is this something that YOU could do (would show her you want to trust her (act as if) and she would rise to the occasion? If you consciously make the choice to trust her, even if she doesn't deserve it yet, what will she do? Run with it, or rise to the occasion?
This is always something to juggle. How to not be taken advantage of (since we have already been, here). (and I think Kent's suggestions are good) And also not wing for our S to change first. (DBing 101).
It's amazing what just a little bit of distancing, mystery, and "acting-as-if" can do!
After just about 1 1/2 hours after W's last call, she started calling again, every 5 minutes. She left messages, wanted to know if we were still going to the movie, wondering where I was, if I was mad, and if I was, wanted me to call her (if I wanted to), apologizing again. Hoped that whatever I was doing that I was having fun. Really.
Called her back, did my best acting-as-if, was pleasant and cheerful. Told her I got her messages, was glad she was okay. She started to ask if I was ok, kinda cut her off, told her that yes, I still wanted to go to the movie, the next one was going to start in about 1 1/2 hours. She asked me where I was, simply told her I was about 45 minutes away from being home. See ya soon, bye.
When I got home, she was still in the shower, running late, we weren't gonna make it on time. Told her we could catch the next show. She asked if I still really wanted to go, said yes, and somehow got around to me saying if going to the first show was that important to me, I'd go alone and we could see it together another time. She got pissy about my "attitude", she was prepared for and wanting a fight, but I just walked away. Came back later and told her I was sorry if she thought I sounded like I had a crappy attitude, it was just late, and there was no need for her to rush, we'd catch the next show.
She calmed down, she continued getting ready, told her I was gonna take a nap. She came in to wake me up, I think she expected me to have a bad attitude, but I didn't. After I got out of the shower, she asked for a hug, and I gave it to her.
Got to the movie, I still remained distant. She ended up reaching for my hand, and keep ahold of me throughout the movie. During the romantic parts, like when they would say "the greatest thing is love", she would start rubbing my arm and moving closer. At one point, I leaned over, gave her a 10 second kiss, and turned back to watch the movie again. It turned out to be quite a love story, and we both ended up crying at the end.
The rest of the evening ended up going ok. She went to bed, started having an anxiety attack, but we worked our way through it. She wanted to hear my voice, tell her a story. So I made up a really stupid fairy tale about a princess and a dragon and how they fell in love and lived happily ever after. I made her laugh a lot. As we layed there, she told me how much she loved me, how she could never love anyone as much as she did me. How no one could ever love her as good as I do. How she's so, so sorry that she hurt me. How she feels that the whole past year of her life has just disappeared, and she can never get it back. She told me that sometimes she just gets overwhelmed and has to run, and how she knows that's not good. She apologized again. We layed there, and talked about the good times we had, how there were soooo many of them. She fell asleep peacefully, and slept throughout the night. We never talked about where she was or where I was.
She's going to court today, she's very scared, very anxious. She's got a lot on her plate, but she dished it up herself, and needs to clean it off on her own. As I told her, I'll be there to do things WITH her, but not FOR her. Found out the OM is out of jail, not sure if she was with him that night, but do know it's not something I can dwell on.
Kent & Lee - You're right about the control thing. I've really been stopping myself, looking at my immediate reactions, and seeing if it IS a control thing. Hard to let it go sometimes. I DO worry about her, she gets anxiety and panic attacks to where she goes into a fog, and "comes to" while she's driving or in the middle of a store. Maybe excuses, but something to take into consideration? I know, it's a problem SHE has to work through, and is taking steps to do this with her C. As I said, the distancing DOES work, and I try to do it in little doses. When I did it in a big dose is when she found OM. She's pretty needy, but probably a lot less than I think she really is. Yes, something else I need to work on!
I don't know if she'll give up this friend. I DO know if I try to force it, she won't. She's had friends in the past I didn't particularly care for, the were "soul-suckers", but when I voiced my opinions about them, it drove her closer to them. Most of these people are out of her life now, she had to come to these realizations on her own.
We watched "28 Days" the other night, a story about an alcoholic in rehab. W was very distraught after the movie, a lot of it hit a little too close to home for her. She's worried about her self-medication, addictive tendencies are there. This is another thing for me to detach from.
What were YOUR realizations?
Lee - I LOVE your .02$ worth. Please keep it coming!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
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