Hey thanks for all the great responses! I'm only able to post after work and have been itching to come reply all day!!
So many thoughtful replies!!
Jenny - I think you are right about H feeling his actions are indefensible - even though his unwillingness to talk about them comes across as defensiveness! I am aware enough about how he behaves to know that is what it is - I don't believe that it is a continuing problem - he did not exhibit this behavior previously, and seems to have it under control now - no unaccounted for time or expenditures. I have talked to him about the possibility of an impulse control problem. In terms of the debt, I don't think a credit counseling service is necessary, and I will think about the resentment/control issue you mentioned in terms of the payback.
Kent- Once again your comments are right on target. I think what drove H away was lack of sexual involvement on my part and my cycle of expressing my disappointment about his other behaviors that were disrespectful. I didn't have a tight rein on finances, but for a long time was the primary earner which affected his feelings of providing. He also got a taste for having $ to spend and did not know how to do it reasonably. In terms of having fun, I am known for being spontaneous, fun and adventurous - for the last 2 years or so we've gone out and had fun regularly - that has never been his complaint - his lack of spontanaety had always been one of mine about him until he went away to school and went to the other extreme!! I am however fine tuning the things I need to in regard to my "reacting" to things that bother me. I did find it interesting that you said he probably would not know what drives him away! I asked him after our argument about all this what it was that I do, that causes him to react the way he does (with anger) and he could not really answer me. I will continue watching and listening to get clues to how to change my behaviors. Thanks for your comments!
Violet - I hear you loud and clear!! I am doing all those same things to take care of myself - I am already for the most part the person I want to be! I might try the "dancing" myself. One of the surprising things about this being an issue for me is that I am VERY open sexually, H and I have been to clubs together on several occasions - had an agreement that if he wanted to go - I would ( I know it is not the same!!) What I am saying is that I am not in the least inhibited or shy in terms of exploring /making sex exciting!! I actually wish we could do less of that - it is easy for me - I want a more "emotionally intimate" connection that H does not seem capable of - at least right now. I think deep emotions are scary for him for a lot of reasons. My H as well is doing many things right - I try to focus on those and communicate that I notice - right now I guess that has to be enough - the rest will come when I fully let go and he believes that I have! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Nothing new here - just checking in before a potentially interesting weekend. H's graduation is this weekend even though he's been out of school since last August. That means his "friend" will be around when we go to Nashville for the weekend. She actually comes in town tomorrow - and I am curious to see if she will call or something.
I know neither he nor I can control what she does, and H said that the friendship he thought he wanted to continue is even not important to him - my insistence that he end all of it was the major factor in him not doing it sooner(or so he says) - but it will be interesting to see what transpires this weekend. I don't plan to bring her up at all - this is a 180 for me. If we see her, I will be smiling and looking HOT!!
I know I must at some point let go of her - even her existence. I will begin that process this weekend as that will be the last time I ever HAVE to be in the same state she is. I will go and have a great time being the wife that H bragged about to all of his school friends - yes EVEN her!! After bragging about that - he is the one who looks foolish for almost losing me! I will be wearing that thought - not with malice - just with the knowledge of how marvelous I am and how lucky he is that he knows it!!
A little update on the graduation situation - It turned into an opportunity to do a 180 - a major 180 that my H already has commented on!!!
Tonight we were supposed to go to Nashville for H's graduation celebration(s). Earlier in the week I had thought that I might suggest he go by himself, but after the latest call from his ex EA , I thought I might go show her we were together.
I knew after our discussions that H was probably dreading my going with him - he would have to worry about my reactions if she were around, whether I was having a good time, etc. He also before we separated mentioned how he wanted to be able to just take off and do something he wanted on his own sometimes. This seemed like one of those times - just from the events over the last few days... Like an opportunity to be with his college friends one last time, that kind of thing. SO... I had the opportunity when he left me a note today - to tell him to go and enjoy his trip, and his friends!!!
He expected that I would get upset and want to go, be mad that he really wanted to go by himself, etc, etc. I did the biggest 180 I could think of. I told him I had thought it would be more fun for him and that I had almost suggested it earlier in the week, and said - have a great time!! I will miss seeing the people I got to know down there - be sure to tell them HELLO for me!!
I know you will probably run into OW, but I trust you!! I don't trust her - but I trust you to do implicitly - I reminded him what he told me about the fact that the further he gets away from that period in his life and that friendship, the less important it becomes. I told him I believe that to be true and that this weekend is an opportunity for both of us to put it to rest. That I need to let her existence in our lives be over.
He told me that he was not interested in her - even as a friend anymore- I said I know that if he sees her he will be nice and that he should be. He said - there will be other people there and NO opportunity for anything to happen , that HE is in control and I don't even have to worry about that fact that I don't trust her - The old H would have said nothing to me about any of these things - I see this as progress!
I DO trust him - I have read all the correspondence they have had over the last 9 months (email about 1 Xper month). ALL of his has been innocent, just friendly, short and I have access to them with his knowledge. I blew up when she sent him one that suggested he get a phone card so they could talk - HE NEVER SAW THAT ONE - I got rid of it, but told him about it- told him that SHE is the problem and he needed to deal with it!!! I have come to realize that my obsession with her was the problem - THANK YOU KENT!!!!
My actions today were based on this realization - I have given her too much power and let her rent space in my head for too long - SHE IS INSIGNIFICANT!!!
I feel very positive about my actions today- H was very surprised. He actually could not believe that I was so calm encouraging, and unconcerned about him going by himself!! I really think I made headway today!!
Tonight I have my school talent show that I am in charge of and after that my recently divorced friend and I are going out on the town - I did not tell H that is what I am going to do - and I won't be here when he calls!! I am using this as an opportunity to detach with love and do something fun for myself - while letting my H see that I can change and let him have some freedom he felt he did not have!!
I think this will feel even better that strutting around with him in front of OW. I will not have to worry about how I look to her, what she thinks of me, or any of that BS! I will be out having my own fun and the good feelings that my actions will generate in my H from this will last a lot longer than my "strutting feelings" ever would have.
Today is the first day I feel like I have the hang of this DB thing - not as an act but as a lifestyle change!! I know it is just the beginning!!
Kent - Thanks for checking in! I felt so good about what I did! He called this morning to check in. I was so chipper - said I had slept in - Stayed out too late! He did not respond right away. Then he started telling me about how it was pretty boring last night, etc, and that he decided to come home tomorrow - I said I think that's a great idea!! Have a good time! Then he asked me what I did last night - I said I went to the blues club we like and heard a great band - the place was packed!! He asked who I went with!! I said oh, just AXXX my recently divorced friend I work with. NO COMMENT! I did have a great time and am making plans to do something else fun tonight - I'm enjoying my day alone and relaxing doing what I want to do!
I once again told him to have a great time - he said I'll call you later - I said "whatever - that is not necessary - just have fun!!" I am continuing to encourage him to do what he wants! I made no mention of OW and whether he had seen her! I am focused on letting go of that!! This is my chance.
I will continue when he gets back tomorrow! i feel rejuvenated in my efforts - Sometimes it is hard for me to figure out ways to do these things on a day to day basis since I've come back home - it is so easy to fall into a pattern of either overfunctioning or going through the motions of everyday life - I want to live consciously without being the one to do all the work in the R.
Nothing much new here - BUT.....My 180 worked like a charm!! H was very curious and a little bit miffed that I went out by myself this weekend!! He was worried about my safety - and he made several comments about guys hitting on me!! He said he even wished he had come home on Saturday instead of Sunday!!! He did not have a very exciting time on his little jaunt with his college buds.
We had a minor argument yesterday afternoon - he was grumpy and snapped at me and I let him know I did not like it (this is my weak area of DB - keeping quiet and not reacting to verbal slights - disrespect is a biggie for me). I just bought Gottman's 7 Principles book on Saturday and began reading it after our argument and was slapped in the face with MYSELF!! It started bawling - I felt so terrible about my part in our patterns of arguing. Amazingly, H came and sat down next to me and comforted me - IT HAS BEN A LONG TIME!!
We talked about what I had read - and he opened up a little - said that he wants to be deeply in love with me and knows he has not tried very hard. I admitted that I had fallen back into some old patterns in the last couple of weeks and I knew that hadn't helped. It was very productive - when he started talking, I just listened. He changed the subject a bit - but I did not redirect it like I normally would. I let it go (a big step for me) and did not push. I felt it was a big step - the most he has opended up in a while. Later we enjoyed a little "afternoon delight" and had a lovely evening together.
This morning he called me at work - this is rare - He just wanted to say hi and tell me how much he enjoyed yesterday. All in all, I'd say it was a great weekend!!
our 10th anniversary is Friday - he talked about how he wants for us to get away and have a great time - even mentioned making reservations at my favorite old hotel in Louisville!!
Baby steps all the way!!! He is deeply in love with me - he just doesn't know it yet!!!
[This message has been edited by biv_b (edited 05-14-2001).]
BB, No tips for me to offer. I think you are making all the right moves for you. They should help with H as well.
The last few days I've been back passing through my own crucible. Old relationships, past indescretions, previous judgements seem to flood me from time to time. Gotta take time to think about them, forgive myself for my stupidity and move on.
Feeling good today - It is our 10th anniversary - and it is going to be a celebration!! There were many times I did not think we would make it!
Kent -
"The last few days I've been back passing through my own crucible. Old relationships, past indescretions, previous judgements seem to flood me from time to time. Gotta take time to think about them, forgive myself for my stupidity and move on."
I hope you are finding that peace of mind you were talking about the other day - You do a lot here that has helped others (including me) find some of their own peace of mind. I know what you mean about thinking about the things you have done, and moving on - that is tough sometimes.
Maybe this will help you see yourself the way others see you....
I have been thinking quite a bit about what I want to say to you - and it never seems to be enough.. I know I have already thanked you - but your intelligent responses and insights thoughout my time on this board have helped me make connections to patterns in my own behavior that I was stubborn about changing.
When it came to the OW - I would think to myself - "How can I ignore her - it is sos disrespectful for him to have contact with her'...... and I would be angry, resentful, and confrontational when I would find out about contact - thereby ensuring further contact!
When it came to his "stonewalling" in arguments - I would pursue and then be even more angry when he would blow up at me- I WAS THE ONE ESCALATING the situation.
You have helped me to CONCRETELY realize that I do not have to react to the things he/or anyone else says or does - I always thought I was detaching - now I can feel the detaching as it is happening and it doesn't hurt or feel like a "wall" going up - in fact I have become more loving in those situations where before I would be righteously indignant - (encouraging him to go out of town by himself - OW was there, etc.) I have even been able to apply these things in situations at work.
I know that "letting go" for me means letting go of MY crap!! You have helped me realize that obsessing and dwelling on insignificant things will never help fix them and that it is MY problem , which keeps me from the happiness I seek in my relationship. I say you have helped me because you drew parallels to your own situation that showed me the destructiveness of what I was doing. I had read the DB book several times, and could apply the principles in a general way - but until you encouraged me to look at things differently , I felt stuck.
You have consistenly replied to my posts with patience and humor, and I appreciate that!!
I just wanted you to know that I thank you for helping me get where I am today - you are part of the reason I am celebrating today instead of divorcing. If I can ever do anything to help YOU - I will be here!! Thank you - Kent, you are a prize!! I consider myself lucky to have made your acquaintence!
BB, That really touches my soul. I stayed on the BB to pay a debt I owed. You just made me realized that it has been paid. I wanted to help one person see what I see, the way GBON helped me.
I'm glad you are celebrating #10. My seventh is coming up in about2 months.
Life will get easier for you once you get used to the new way of thinking. Marriage takes maintenance just like a car or a house.
