Quote: A less empowered way of putting this question would be, do you often feel as though your W controls your choices by being excessively emotionally fragile and/or volatile, prone to drama...?
Lemme think about that...
I think this was 100% the case in the past and the major reason I was so "passive" in many ways. I think still to this day I have issues with this but I think I am pretty open about that. I do think I am much closer to say, 25% governed by these feelings and 100% aware of that control so I am still working on it.
I struggle with when it becomes healthy concern and "supportive" and when it becomes me subjugating my own needs/wants because I think to do otherwise will "set her off".
In reality, she has done a lot to activly (and I guess in this way, she HAS tried to contribute to our progress) let me know that I CAN be honest with her and she CAN handle it. She actually prefers it (gee, who woulda thunk it) when I am honest and direct even if it hurts.
So, the short answer is that I used to do this all the time and I think it contributed VERY much to our problems...not so much any more.
Funny, not much more than an hour after posting that response, I got crystal clear evidence that I am full of $hit.
My just called me and said she is "not feeling well" which is her code for her thinking she's having a panic attack. I don't know if this "panic" thing is another way to create drama (actually, I know she actually DOES suffer from some kinda of real affliction) but what I do know is that she refuses to get help for it. Thus, she ends up calling me sometimes at work, or telling me "she doesn't feel well" in the morning to get me to stay with her, or come home. Now, this hasn't happened much in the recent past but used to be more of a problem. Very recently, mainly since the DUI, she has been complaining of this stuff much more and I have had to take more than a few mornings and afternoons off to help her.
I am VERY confused about whether I should be doing this. On the one hand, I feel like I should have done more of this in the past (I never used to accommodate her when she felt this way and she said it made her feel unsupported) and part of me feels like I am enabling her not to get REAL help for what her problems are.
So, just now on the phone she asked me if I was busy at work, and I said kinda, why. She said she wasn't feeling well but didn't want me to miss any more work. Again, that is her way of saying she WANTS me to come home but feels bad asking. I don't know what to do. Contrary to what I have been doing (usually trying to get home to see her), I just said I could not really leave right now and for her to let me know how she is doing. She said it would be ok but didn't sound convinced.
Again, I don't know what to do. Is this me being "ruled" by her fragility or is this me just being a good husband, supporting his W through a hard time? I need help.
I can kinda relate because my wife has what I think is depression and all I want to do is help. On some occasions I "bow down to her" and do what she wants just to give her a sense of relief. In reality I think she needs to seek professional counseling. As far as your wife goes I think it's okay for you to help her once in awhile....now every time. You(like me) can't always be there to pick up the pieces.
And IMO your W does need to seek help regarding her alcohol. If she drinks evereyday it's a problem. It does seem like she using it as an escape sometimes and that to is a problem.
This sounds like a good thing to talk to C about. You need to figure out your own boundary here and enforce it. I expect its not particularly good for her to let her panic control your lives.
BTW, I wonder if it might help to give her more of what she gets from you at those times at other times. Maybe more nurturing in general, brushing her hair, doing little things that make her feel secure, etc., would help.
This sounds like a good thing to talk to C about. You need to figure out your own boundary here and enforce it. I expect its not particularly good for her to let her panic control your lives.
Well, it's surely something to talk to C about, and I will if we get to it. We have a LOT of ground to cover today. I have not seen her in over a month, before the "big" R talk. I know we cannot let panic control our lives, it's just that her "panic" had not surfaced really until our troubles began sometime around a year ago. She thinks once this is all over, both the intense relationship trauma and the DUI stuff, that it will receed back into the background. I tend to agree based on her history but for now, it is an issue.
Quote: BTW, I wonder if it might help to give her more of what she gets from you at those times at other times. Maybe more nurturing in general, brushing her hair, doing little things that make her feel secure, etc., would help.
OT, that's the confounding thing about her. I LOVE to do those things for her but she doesn't seem to want that...at least from me. I IS getting better in terms of her acceptance of my physical proximity/doing things for her like that but it's still FAR from good.
UPDATE: I called W, ostensibly to tell her that I would try to leave a little early (compromise) and ask her if that would help. Before I got to that, she said she was feeling better and was about to get lunch, BTW, at the same shopping center where she used to meet OM, which is not really a big deal since she is there every day for some reason anyway. It's just my overactive imagination thinking she went to HIM for support since I didn't give it to her (see, I at least THINK like a person controlled by her fragility).
Anyway, I talked to her about our decision to plea her case and she seemed to be feeling ok about it (that was the source of her stress). She said what was weighing on her as much as anything was that she would have to go down there and I would have to take more time off. I assured her that I was ok to do that and not to worry. She sounded relieved.
In the end, she said she would be fine and was going to call the lawyer to make arrangments and would call me back.
I guess this time it worked out, but I still need to figure out where I stand in general. Eitehr I accept that she will need me every onece in awhile until this is over, or I erect a "boundary" and somehow affect how I approach it. I will think on it/talk to C about it and come up with what I think is best.
This has been an area that I've been mulling over quite a bit lately as I wonder to what extent I've been ruled by my W's issues as well. To some extent I wonder if I'm not enabling her to continue her "secret eating habits" (or lack thereof) in an effort to be there for her at every step. Again, like you GH, I wonder to what extent I was available to her in the past and now I feel like I'm there at every turn, doing a host things in reaction to what she may feel or say. I've already caught myself on several occasions subjugating my needs to appease, or even dare I say, impress, her. I have to keep evaluating whether I'm doing something because I really want to or whether I'm doing it to avoid confrontation, etc. What a battle....shouldn't relationships come with a Dummies Guide?
Other than that, I'm really saddened by your lawyer's approach to your W's DUI case. To me it seems like an open and shut, first-time offenders (at worst) situation. I don't know how things work in Florida, but here in PA, its usually an automatic thing for first-time offenders to be accepted into whats called ARD, unless there's certain circumstances. Such a shame.
I really am looking forward to hearing what your C has to say about all this.....I'll be reading your post tomorrow for an update!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH, what you recently wrote about W, and OT pointed out, the dramatic outbursts really hit home for me. Sadly, I was prone to the same thing. Not with illness, etc, but with getting mad at H for falling asleep and not listening, being needy, angry at H for failing my invisible tests/needs, outbursts. Sadly, also, it didn't need alcohol to come out. Just a way that I learned to act with him. He too was passive, then just cracked.
Now...I am different. It kills me to think I was ever that way. I have really changed. Why was I like that, why did I ever act that way? Well, as OT stated, I was unhappy about so many things, wanted H's time and support and attention when he was so busy being engrossed in his own misery over work and life (M too, I suppose), and I let it out in some really unhealthy ways. Not processing the feelings or expressing them in appropriate ways.
Her chasing you and anger at falling asleep....for me, I felt I needed H, but didn't articulate in a normal, clear way that it's what I wanted. In her case, with all her guilt, trouble she has caused (A, DUI, etc) she can't say "I know I hurt you, but I need you..." b/c it confuses her. I also think with your moods in the past, there must have been times that she needed someone to reach out and you didn't, absorbed in your own feelings, as my H was. So she lashes out instead, so used to not getting someone to reach out.
Mostly, she's frustrated at life. Taking it out on you. It's horrible, and happens. We show our worst behavior to those closest to us....it's why we're all here, right? It's the first lesson I had to learn. The kindness, understanding and little things I show to others has to come first in my M, and it WORKS.
I was frustrated, at an absent, angry H. I was frustrated at life in lots of little ways, but mostly, I realized that it was H's mood that rubbed off on me. I'm NOT blaming him...my actions are my own, and they were bad. But, once I removed myself from his feelings and also got happy myself and took control, it got better. H got better too, and realizes his part.
I am in no way excusing my own behavior or your W's. I am trying to explain it, as it seems so irrational (and is) to others. It's a level of frustration like you don't know what to do, you'll explode, you're unhappy, so you let it out in unhealthy, immature ways. Right now, she is scared, pissed at herself for getting into this mess, for being a person who might actually go to jail, for seeing a great and strong H and seeing that she almost lost that, in ways did by the whole A. She is ashamed and guilty, unhappy and frustrated.
What is wrong is she is still letting it out in wrong ways. That is something she will have to learn on her own, as I did. You can't help her with that. All you can do is perhaps tell her that you can understand that she's feeling these things, but she needs to let it out in more productive ways for the M to grow.
Second, seems that she is really needy and attention-seeking at times with calls to work, etc. I called H all the time too, testing how long he stayed on the phone and when he came back. I was lonely and needy. Now, I GAL, and really dug deep to the feelings attached to these sudden spouts of neediness. For me, they stemmed from previous R's of ours that I felt H did not care and shoved me away. I cut the cord from these emotions and realize that he tries his best, and I understand. It still helps when I get a little assurance from H that he cares and sees my POV...esp after his A.
My suggestion: if she calls again, and says that "I know you can't take time off" say "yeah, I it's tough for me to take time out now. But, if you need me, I will make time. I would really LOVE to be there for you now, I want you to know that--I care and am worried about you when you're not feeling well. Though I have to be here today, I'll be thinking of you and will check up on you. If there's anything you need, give a call. How does that sound?" Then, call her regularly to check in. I don't think this is 'weak' male behavior, but rather standing your ground to stay at work,but reassuring her that you care and can care for her from afar, not just in person. It means so much. Chances are, she will be calmed and won't call again.
Strike the balance between strong and sweet/caring. You can do it. Be consistent with those messages, together. She WILL get it.
Also, OT is so RIGHT ON about her advice on appreciating the LLs that spouses give, even if they are their own and not ours. It's still given in LOVE, with that bright-eyed, excited love, so don't reject it b/c it's not what YOU were looking for. Of course, keep pushing to find ways your needs are met too. Ex, for my H, gifts are a LL, not mine. They feel like guilt gifts at times, but to him, they mean a lot to do for me. I accept them with the excitement he gives them. It means a lot to him and to me.
What a very good post! I know it was directed at GH, but it really is applicable to me as well and I definitely have taken a lot from it. In so many ways, I see myself as that person you have described in yourself and its scary because this is NOT who I am, or was.
But in any event, what a great post. Thank you.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Also, I know you have been dealing with the same kinds of things (as always, my brother from another mother with a wife from my other life) and it is REALLY hard, especially considering that we KNOW we were absent at times in the past when we 100% should have been there for our wives.
Now, we are in that place where we know so much more but still get trapped into doing and saying things to "make up" for the past. I think we need to try not to do that, but it's really hard to tell the difference between genuine support that any loving H would give to any W, and something that approaches enabling, etc.
GH
P.S. I had to cancel C appt today due to a scheduling conflict. Rescheduled for early next week. Sucks, but had to do it.
I think what really complicates my sitch, as well as my reaction to it, is the simple fact that as part of her issue, she is unable to express emotion or have any "love" to give because she feels emotionally listless and useless herself. That's the hardest part about this whole ordeal for me because, as she's described it, she is completely "numb and holllow" which is symptomatic of her illness. I literally can't have emotional R talks with her or put any expectations upon her, becuase she has no way to process emotions at this point.
This is where I really get trapped becasue I want to be there for her through this very, very difficult time for her especially since I believe I hadn't been before, but I cannot enable her or subjugate my needs. Basically, I have to detach from the illness, as well as the previous A. This is why I have my first C session scheduled for next Thursday, lol.
Yes, it is a very fine line between enabling and offering genunie support. This is definitely something I have to further identify as well and something I really hope that my counselor can quide me on.
In any event, I didn't want to hi-jack here, and I should update on my own thread.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
