Quote: I finished PM, I found it very repetive and confusing but I did figure out that you cannot be so dependent on your spouse for your happiness.
I too find it repetitive but I think there is a method to his madness. I think each time he re-visits the core concepts in his philosophy, he adds another layer of explanation, fleshing it out a little more until the picture becomes clear. For me, I need this because his concepts are pretty confusing and deep at times.
Like with most self-help books I have read, it's that overall concept that is important. With DB/DR, it is the no R talk, personal growth. With 5 Love Languages it is the fact that we often give what we want in terms of love and it's important to give our spouse the kind of love THEY want. With the 4 Agreements we learn what it means to try to live within ourselves and not take other people's words/actions to heart. Getting the Love you want is all about the more Freudian approach that we choose partners that either complement or fill the gaps left in us by our childhood and The Little Book of Letting Go is all about how to not let things get to you.
Again, the overall concepts are what is important and the 300 or so pages it takes to communicate that concept are what it takes to get it through our thick skulls.
I will say, kinda backtracking a bit, that DB/DR do seem to have more than just a core set of concepts to offer but then again, I guess I have paid more attention to them than the others.
Well, the meeting with the lawyer didn't resolve anything. We are still undecided about wether to go forward with the trial or go the "no contest" route. We are leaning towards the "no contest" simply because my W is deathly afraid of the potential, albeit HIGHLY unlikely, jail time associated with a conviction.
On the personal front, things were playful this afternoon between all the stressing about the case. I ALMOST decided to have a R talk just to let her know that I need more from this "new" marriage but I decided against it. Something in me is telling me that now is not the time. She is probably under more stress now than ever in her life and I don't think it's the right time to be expressing my frustration at our "lack of progress". I think once Friday rolls around and we enter the plea, then maybe things will calm down somewhat. So, I guess until then, I will keep my mouth shut and just "deal" the same way I have been for months. I suppose another few days won't kill me.
GH, good plan. Your W is under ALOT of stress over her current sitch. Just be her rock. Do not put any pressure on her for anymore than that. If I were her, I would just need my Rock. Once it is over and done with she will hopefully FALL into your arms. It will be such a release for her. All the bad things will be over. Just keep on DB'ing and I swear everything will work out. I am not physic, but I just feel it!
Oh Mama, I will but it is really hard to not get selfish right now and start asking for more. I also fight the good fight every day to not ask her about OM. I THINK he's gone for good but things have been almost TOO quiet. I don't know, I guess somehow I expect her to reassure me he's gone every once in awhile. I am looking for her to mention him or say SOMETHING but she says nothing and does nothing that looks out of the ordinary. Like I said, almost TOO quiet.
I don't really suspect anything but her phone still lives in her car. That's another thing I resist talking to her about because I don't want to be focused on that. I just want to concentrate on us, or what needs to be done with ME. Worrying about where her phone is does not help me do that. It DOES fit in with wondering about OM, something else I don't really want to do.
I think I WILL talk to her about these things when all this DUI stuff is more behind us but for now, I will just have a LITTLE trust that things are only strained as much as they are because of that and nothing else...well, nothing else like OM.
The only tiny update is that W got on the phone with her sister last night really late, like 11:30, after I had gone to bed. I could hear them talking until well past midnight about her case. Around 2:00am she came to bed, fully dressed and was angry at me for not answering her. She said she had been trying to get me to talk to her by calling be from downstairs and "why didn't I answer her?" The she just made some comments about needing me to talk to her but I was asleep and that made her mad. I was fully awake by then and tried to get her to talk but she was not having it. I told her I understood she was upset but that I didn't fall asleep on purpose, that it was late and I was tired. She didn't say much and was asleep herself in a couple minutes.
This morning was ok. I guess she just had a rough time of it last night.
I have my first IC appointment this afternoon so I should get some decent help with my issues.
Postponing discussion until after the court case seems to be sensitive, caring, and supportive.
But please talk to your C about your own wants and needs. Continuing to subordinate them is not good for you, and, trust me, it is NOT an attractive feature to women.
Your W seems very self-absorbed. These late night phone calls and mini-dramas make me wonder if she has an active substance abuse problem. Was she drinking when she called her sister late at night?
Quote: Postponing discussion until after the court case seems to be sensitive, caring, and supportive.
I hope so.
Quote:
But please talk to your C about your own wants and needs. Continuing to subordinate them is not good for you, and, trust me, it is NOT an attractive feature to women.
I know. I do not want to continue to do this any longer than I feel I need to. I WILL address this with my C and eventually with my W.
Quote:
Your W seems very self-absorbed. These late night phone calls and mini-dramas make me wonder if she has an active substance abuse problem. Was she drinking when she called her sister late at night?
Yes, my W is self-absorbed. This I know, and it's something I need to figure out if I can accept, or if it can change. She didn't used to be this way but for the past year or so, and especially since the A, she has been. I just see it as a byproduct of the A or MLC or something. I WILL need her to be able to fill some of MY needs at some point and honestly, when I look at our marriage, she has not always been the best at that...then again, I wouldn't let her so...
As for the drinkig, you know, or at least I think you know, that I started out this whole thing with the idea that my W had a drinking problem. I still think she may, and yes, she was drinking last night. She drinks to some extent every night. Sometimes it is just a glass of wine or two with dinner, sometimes it is a bottle throughout the night. I truly don't know if she has a "problem" or not. I know that since I stopped "having a problem", i.e. getting upset and in a "mood" as the night went on, with her drinking, it has been much more out in the open (she used to try to conceal it) and actually she's been drinking less. I don't know what to think sometimes, but I do think that I may have jumped the gun in thinking she had a "problem". It's not really something I focus on much these days.
To really go back to my "beginnings", I had to admit, and I figured this out in therapy, that if I am honest, I have a problem with drinking at all considering that I don't drink. I never really wanted to admit this, but when my C helped me understand that I felt most, if not all the people in my life who drink have a "problem" it became clear that I did not have a good idea of what that meant and was not the best person to judge. That doesn't mean she DOESN'T have a problem, it just means that I understand that I needed to try to get away from judging people just because they drink.
This is a complicating factor in my sitch, one I am not ignoring but since I removed it as my MAIN focus (I even focused on her drinking MORE than the affair in the beginning, thinking it was the CAUSE of everything) it has become a sort of non-issue. Maybe I am just in denial but I really don't see her habits as much different than anyone else I know who drinks, and trust me, in the early days, I asked a TON of people. I know her being similar or the same as others doesn't make her "right" but it does let me feel better that she is not "abnormal" so far as can tell.
No, I didn't know that stuff about her drinking. The amount she is drinking doesn't necessarily sound extreme. It is more the pattern -- the late night buzzed dramas -- that suggest she is relying on alcohol to cope rather than really making changes in her life so that she is happy. And, it doesn't help that she seems to take things out on you when this happens...
Re focusing on the alcohol, then the A, then XYZ... in trying to figure out WTH is going on. Pretty standard stuff to look for THE KEY. Actually, THE KEY is pretty straightforward -- the old R wasn't working for either P and one of the Ps figured that out first.
OT, we may be cross posting but I wanted to clarify something. I CANNOT accept my W being self absorbed. I will need her to be able to "give" to me as well as take and that is something that I will have to address with her at some point. Actually, it is the MAIN thing I need to change in our R. The sad part is that she feels like SHE has been the one giving all along but she doesn't understand that what she gives is not what I need, just as I understand that what I have given her all these years did not "fill" her tank so-to-speak. We both need to learn to give in the way that works for the other. I think that is possible through open communication, something I know you know I am working on.
Quote: No, I didn't know that stuff about her drinking. The amount she is drinking doesn't necessarily sound extreme. It is more the pattern -- the late night buzzed dramas -- that suggest she is relying on alcohol to cope rather than really making changes in her life so that she is happy.
Sorry OT, sometimes it feels like you have been with me from the beginning. Yea, in the beginning I was talking a LOT about my W's drinking and many people here, and my C in real life, said I was making WAY too much of an issue about it considering what I was telling them (i.e. the amounts, patterns, etc). Sure, she DOES self medicate, this I know, and YES she is using it right now to cope but she doesn't always do that, or at least I don't think she does. Like I said, I don't really know. Since I don't drink or do anything else in terms of "substance" to cope, I don't know personally much about it.
Quote: And, it doesn't help that she seems to take things out on you when this happens...
No, it doesn't but it really doesn't get to me anymore. Most of the time, our conflicts that happened when she was drinking were as much to do with my "mood" as her drinking. When I just learned to validate her, all that changed. Last night was one of the first times in a LONG time that she "went at me" like that. I am not saying I think it's ok for her to do, just that it doesn't happen NEARLY as much as it used to.
Quote: Re focusing on the alcohol, then the A, then XYZ... in trying to figure out WTH is going on. Pretty standard stuff to look for THE KEY. Actually, THE KEY is pretty straightforward -- the old R wasn't working for either P and one of the Ps figured that out first.
I think this is a GREAT idea. You are right, and that's why it bothers me to revisit the drinking thing again, because I felt like I was looking for THE reason things were happening. The drinking, if it's NOT alcoholism (and I suspect that it is not) is a symptom just like the A. The REAL issues are the problems in our marriage, and that's what I want to focus on.
I too now understand that the old M was not good for either of us and I will do my part to make sure that I don't fall back into that bad marriage but unlike NM, my W already lives with me so it's a bit of a different process.
Re LLs... It is also important to learn to feel the love the other person is giving you in their own LL...
Anyway, your post to NM made me want to ask if you often allow your choices to be governed by some kind of perceived emotional fragility or drama of W's?
A less empowered way of putting this question would be, do you often feel as though your W controls your choices by being excessively emotionally fragile and/or volatile, prone to drama...?
