Background About 3 weeks ago, I discovered my wife of 4 years was having an affair. She'd found a (male) friend online and their relationship grew when they discovered that they shared much of the same interests, and perhaps more importantly that they shared much of the same pain in their pasts. It quickly turned into an emotional affair, and then (again quickly) into an online sex affair. I had been jealous of their relationship for quite some time, but (perhaps stupidly) never suspected they were having an affair - not enough to look into it, at least. For some reason that now escapes me, I decided to do some checking 3 weeks ago, and made the discovery very quickly. After talking to my best friend about what was going on, I decided to confront her that same night. I first told her that no matter what, I still loved her and that I wanted our marriage to work, then told her I knew about the affair. During our 4 hour talk that night, she asked what I wanted. I told her I wanted two things - for us to go to marriage counseling, and for her to cut off all communication with the OM immediately. Earlier in the conversation, I had asked her if she wanted to work on the marriage, but her answer was unclear - I don't think she knows what she wants. When I told her the two things I wanted, she said yes to counseling, and no to cutting off communication immediately (and gave no indication that she'd try). We haven't discussed things too much since then, mostly because she was involved in college finals. But, from my continued observations, she's continued to carry on the affair and continued to discuss their future relationship. It sickens me to no end. Due to how I know all this, and the fact that she doesn't now how I found out, I haven't let on all the things I know - which might be more than what is healthy at this point.
I've determined the online affair started about 9 or 10 months ago. The relationship had been purely online until earlier this year. He came to town a couple of times, for various reasons, with my full knowledge (but, me thinking they were just friends), and it's very likely they had sex during one or more of those times. I say to myself that this doesn't matter any more than the online sex, and I still want to work through things, but it does bug me just that little bit more. Now, she has taken a trip with our two 2 yr old girls to visit her parents in her home town for 9 days. She has been very open about her relationship with the OM - except about the affair, of course. So, I know that during this time, she planned to meet up with him at least one of those days, although I wasn't aware of the logistics. It turns out that he's going to stay in the same hotel that she and the girls are staying at - he'll be there the last 3 nights that she's there. I now know that they also met up this past weekend, to what extent I'm not sure, except that she went so far as to give him a key to her room (again, the room she's sharing with our girls).
Need Advice The advice I'm seeking is whether or not I say anything to her about knowing he's staying in the same hotel. Again, the fact they planned on having sex does indeed bug me a bit, but I know this may go on for quite a while before we're able to work through things, so I have to look past it. What really bugs me is that she'll either be having sex with him in front of our girls, or she'll be leaving our girls in her hotel room while having sex in his room. I'm afraid to say anything for a couple of reasons - she may wonder why I'm still willing to work through things when knowing so much (and think less of me because of it, hurting our chances), and my resource for ongoing knowledge about what's going on may go away (see below on the latter).
Some More Misc Background Since I had known about them meeting up on this trip, during our first talk, I told her it can't happen. She said "no" to that, too, at the time. In subsequent talks, she's said that she has to meet with him face-to-face to tell him certain things - insinuating that she is going to tell him they have to stop or pause while she and I try to work on our marriage. She also has said that they agreed to not talk for 3 months after this trip. I want to believe both of these things, but have absolutely no evidence as to the latter. So, I assume she is lying to me - I won't know until next week, when it becomes clear whether or not they are still communicating.
When we were having dinner with a lot of family members last week, she got drunk and was having a good time - we were laughing and were very close that night - and she told me "we'll work through this". I don't know if it was just the alcohol talking - I so want to believe, and she'd been very careful to not give me false hope until that point.
I'm now seeing a personal therapist, but have only had one visit. My next visit is the day before the OM checks into the hotel. I don't know that she's going to be any help in answering my question above. I've told my W that I think we should wait to see a marriage counselor, because I need to figure some things out first - she knows I'm seeing a personal therapist. While this is true, I also don't want her sabotaging the counseling session, inadvertently or on purpose, and using it as an excuse to say "see, we tried, and it's not working". But, I think that the only way she's going to open up to me is with a third party moderating discussion (something she's effectively said).
I've become very obsessed with knowing all I can about their ongoing affair. I feel that if I didn't know so much, or spent so much time in discovery, it would probably have helped me approach her for further talking. But, even then, I'm afraid of saying or doing anything that hurts our chances. The therapist has suggested I stop my discovery process, for basically these exact reasons, and I've read the same in other threads here. I'm going to try my best to stop - as many of you know, it's damn hard.
Thanks for any help or advice,
RC
(P.S. I will, no doubt, have more to post about the A in general.)
Sorry to see you here. Have you read DB/DR? If not, do so now please, it will help.
First of all, you seem VERY together, almost TOO together. I worry a bit about that but moving on...
I will start with the last thing first:
Quote: The therapist has suggested I stop my discovery process, for basically these exact reasons, and I've read the same in other threads here. I'm going to try my best to stop - as many of you know, it's damn hard.
Um, yes. Stop NOW and as Mr. Miagi said, or was that someone else, "There is no try, there is only do." From what I can see, all this detective work has taken over your life, as it does for most people who start down that path. You know this first hand. Now you need to stop.
As for the rest of it, like I said, you sound REALLY good all things considered. I think what I am sensing is that you may need to be careful that you are not somehow in denial rather than being detached from your W's actions. She IS having an affair and you want to detach from reacting to your negative emotions over it NOT deny that you have them. It's a fine line but one involves being honest with yourself and the other is deceiving yourself. I suspect your IC can help you process whatever feelings you may (or may not) be suppressing. Just please try to allow yourself to feel the pain now or else you may see it come flooding out in the form or extreme resentment should things start down the path of reconciliation.
All things considered, you seem to be doing ok. You are getting help via the IC, and you have clearly established some boundaries that you are trying to further define, which is good.
I think you just need to continue down the path you are on and make sure that along the way, you are doing some "Self checks" to make sure that you are being open with yourself, your IC and eventually, your W about what you are feeling.
I read most of your sitch before posting. It helped quite a lot, particularly in realizing this may be a LONG and arduous journey, and I'm planning for that. As far as being together - I sometimes wonder if it's denial or just having burned through a lot of emotions very fast. The talk I had with my best friend right after finding out was 4+ hours and I think I ran the gamut of emotions rather quickly. It really helped me have my confrontation with W extremely calmly. He and I have talked about every day since, and it's helped me stay grounded. I've also been so incredibly aware of what is going on, I can't deny it and still consider myself sane. I can't really say why I seem all that together, except I'm almost always that way. There are definitely moments I sit in denial, or at least conscious and selective forgetfulness, but if anything I can't get my mind off it all and pain is something I feel 24/7 right now. :P
I just learned of DB and DR tonight. I am going by the bookstore tomorrow to see if I can find them, and if not ordering right away. (Posting another question on that topic.)
Hi RC, Welcome although as always I am sorry you are here. You will find a wealth of information and support through these boards, and you were already visited by grasshopper, one of the masters in my book, so you are in good hands.
Regarding the snooping, it becomes obsessive and can control your mind. You just need to stop, cold turkey. It is a weird thing, the more I have snooped, the more I have wanted to snoop. And not one thing I have ever found out by snooping has really helped me. In fact, it has me become a suspicious character instead of a trustworthy one. I want my H to tell me when he is ready to tell me - THAT would be satisfying. The occasional snooping, with partial information taken out of context, does nothing but make me crazy and more suspicious. It never solves anything. So just stop.
Divorce Remedy is really good. Read it cover to cover, highlight and dog ear, and return again and again. Take on the exercises. Creating a Solutions Journal has really helped me. My H moved out in January (per my request) as he chose at that time to continue the A and told me our R was over because he "didn't love me" and "had to follow his heart". This was before I read DR. We have made a lot of progress since then, although it ain't close to over yet. But I believe to the bottom of my heart that Michele's techniques work, if you really take on your own personal growth and aren't just trying to do techniques to get a result you want without personal introspection.
This is a really good place to get support. Make sure to come here often and seek us out. If you are truly committed to your marriage, there is hope. But your actions are very important right now.
Regarding your daughters, I feel it is appropriate to set healthy boundaries around contact with an OM. If you can neurtalize your emotions, you might be able to have a conversation where you tell your W that you would prefer to keep the girls for the weekend if she will be seeing OM, and although you would prefer that she does not continue to see him, it is her choice about her time with him - but you do have the right to particpate in the decisions that relate to your daughters' well being. I would encourage you to be clear around the healthy boundaries for your girls now, as having them stay in a hotel room alone while mommy is in another room somewhere else in the hotel, is not safe for them. Others may have a different take on what should be said. But you have a responsibility as a parent to protect and look after your children, and I would encourage you to have that conversation about the care for your girls' well being, and get some agreement about that with your W as a bottom line requirement.
The only trouble with boundaries is that you have to be willing to enforce them, or you will become weak in your W's eyes and that will hurt your situation. For example, you can ask your W not to see OM, but you can't demand it unless you are prepared to follow through 100% on whatever consequence would occur. In your case, because your W has said she is not going to end it, you should stop all requests or expressions of what you want. This is outlined in DR. And especially don't make demands - no ultimatums - unless it is a make it or break it issue for you and you are 100% prepared to back it up with consistent action no matter what.
Good luck. Keep checking in and let us know how you are doing. It can be a long haul, but I am finding many rewards now that a few months have gone by. I remember how awful I felt in the beginning. Please hang in there, and do some things that you like and that are good for you ASAP.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Okay, so it's Wednesday. I'm currently dark (recent occurrence). But, I know enough about what's going on right now and in the next few days that I'm having trouble coping. I know they are *right now* in the same hotel room... with our two girls sleeping not 6 feet away. I know that W told her parents we're going to MC... which we aren't... yet... and that her parents went the "you+him=good for the kids" route, with her wondering "wtf about good for *me*?" I know that OM bought a baby/room monitor so that W can go "visit" him in his hotel room while leaving the girls in her room (original reason for this thread, but it's confirmed). I know they have 3 more nights of this "freedom", and I hope the next 3 nights are easier than this one (probably not). I know that Friday night, OM is going to dinner with W and *her mom* - babysitter with the girls. I'm fairly confident her mom has suspected something since last Thanksgiving... told me "she talks to him an awful lot,doesn't she? doesn't that bother you?"... and I told W as much same Thanksgiving (and that I worried, but trusted)... jeez, get a clue and *don't* bring him around, unless you want more crap from your mom. Oh wait, she told her mom she thinks he's gay... yeah, that'll work, just like it did with me. My *grr* side wants nothing more than her mom to say to him "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with you here and with my daughter.", but won't likely happen - her parents are very non-interference at times and ignore a lot. (My mom has suspected since God knows when - even before the OA started, and well before I truly suspected - and now is 110% certain they're at least in an EA. So hard to not spill the beans, but I can't if I want our M to work out. Mom's can read their sons in an eerily accurate manner, sometimes. She wants to send W and OM an article on EAs - I told her "oh, God, please don't" and had to leave it at that.)
Again, and as with this A crap with most people, it's not the sex that bugs me... so much. It's the deceipt. And not just the deceipt, but the depth and breadth of it. And in this particular instance, its a great deal of "wtf are you doing this IN FRONT OF OUR 2 YR OLD DAUGHTERS FOR???" God, our girls don't need to be confused like this!!! Ugh. Unless we get a divorce, I'M their daddy, and I'M the one that should be cuddled up with you in bed, or kissing you lovingly, and they don't need to see some other fat a$$ doing the same. (note: I'm either not worried they'll have sex in front of the kids, or in complete denial about the possibility.) *GRRR*
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Side notes: * I have DR now and am reading it, although it is slow going. Not sure how I'm going to get through the thing at any good rate, once W and kids are back home. * Seeing an IC, but have only had two visits (planning on sticking to once a week). No truly substantive help, just yet. * Tried to plan something every evening this week, in order to (1) distract me from dwelling, and (2) start to GAL. * Planning various things toward renewing self-interests and working toward GAL (haven't read this in DR, but have read enough elsewhere I know I need to start doing this, anyway): going to the gym, poker nights, movies with friends, misc other stuff with friends, take guitar lessons (with the guitar W bought me for b-day long ago!), clean out the f'ing garage so I can take up woodworking, and more as I can think of it. Although I start to wonder, if I GAL too much, what about spending time with W?
Hi Calm, How are you doing? I think your GAL strategies are great - how are they coming along? I can tell you one thing, from hard earned experience over the past 5 months:
Quote: Although I start to wonder, if I GAL too much, what about spending time with W?
You do not need to worry about this. The more you try to make sure you are available, the less appealing (and more pursuing) you seem. Be friendly, kind, open when you see W. But keep yourself very very occupied with other activities as much as possible. If your W becomes interested in where you are and what you are doing, and wants to spend more time with you, well THEN you can make yourself a little more available (but not all the time). Also important, keep being a great dad, and keep that impression in your W's mind. Keep looking good, keeping being desirable. But be a little mysterious, as soon as you can muster it.
Remember that OM is not the problem. he is only a symptom of the fact that your M was not well. You may be able to make your M well again. But first, you need to become totally 100% responsible for taking good care of you. The rest will come later. Sometimes MUCH later. But that's OK. It also takes a while for us to get good at detaching. Until then, we're not really ready for them to notice us anyway.
Rooting for you! Keep slogging through DR. I read it all the time, used my highlighter. You'll love that book some day, I promise
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
I'm doing better since stopping snooping - well, better in most ways, but hit anxiety moments every now and then.
I did a movie tonight with a friend. It's funny how I try to stay "mysterious", primarily by not telling W many details other than "I'm going to a movie Thursday night" - not with who, not what movie, just that I'm going to a movie. Then, over time, she asks me all the details - who with, what movie, what time, am I eating dinner at home or out, etc etc. Is this a semi-good sign? She's plenty cool about asking - not all at once, and not extreme curiosity, just smooth questions slipped in here and there.
After I get done typing this, I'm going to fill out the paperwork to sign up for our office gym. Planning yet another movie night with another friend for next week or week after. Generally staying aloof, if that's the right word. It just feels a little odd, because right after d-day, I felt part of why the A happened was b/c I'd gotten so bogged down in my own things - but, that was rather different, as they were all at home and all just stuff on the computer. Now I'm getting out or keeping myself more occupied in some way off my a$$. I'm not so sure the "getting bogged down in my own things" was really a factor, so much as the constant neglect and lack of attention when she spoke of her interests. Also feels odd, because as my C said, there's this really large elephant in the room that nobody's talking about.
Since someone suggested keeping my sitch to one thread (until it gets locked), I moved to here.
