Am I Creating a SSM Part IV

[Cobra]

Heather,

I think you completely miss the point of Lil’s prompting to attend Alanon, at least from what I can tell. My interpretation is that the underlying issues you are dealing with in your marriage are exactly the same as someone dealing with an alcoholic. The codependency, the enmeshment, the shame are common to alcoholic relationships and your marriage. Going to Alanon is not for you the deal with his drinking, it is to deal with you and your issues. It just so happens that the issues and the Alanon way of dealing with them are directly transferable to your situation. You and your H both have an addiction. It is to each other.

[Dmsw4]

Blackie...The buttons are never getting sewn on again.

By the time it clicked with me, it was too late. H was totally involved with his ow. I get it now. I want to make sure it will never happen again.

But, this lesson I've learned here will probably not pertain to the next R I have. Each one is different...I just have to figure out who I am, who I am supposed to be, and to be true to myself. I think that if I can just figure that out, the rest will fall into place.

I've realized that I'm not really LD. It was totally situational. I was not getting from him what I needed to feel the "tingle." I don't think I knew, wouldn't have been able to tell him if I tried...and I did try. I knew it was wrong, I just didn't know how to fix it then.

Sorry for the hijack Heather...

[Stigmata]

Hi Heather,

I know you're gonna follow up your thoughts at some point. Just wanted to say the way you're feeling right now is natural and understandable. It's usually how it runs its course after an boundary awakening, a la:

I have been willing enough to punish myself, thing is, I never get the chance. He does it for me. Since this last time he rejected me sleeping in my bed, I can be civil, but being nice or kind repels me like the wrong end of a magnet. I go to bed without saying goodnight, I could care less what he's working on at work, It's pretty easy not to worry about his reactions to the things I do because I really don't give a crap. If not for the horrible effect separation would have on the kids, I would so be living in my own little condo right now. I have so many fears about seriously hurting those two little angels in my life.

-- What I see you awakening from is this 2-year post A punishment coma you've agreed to participate in under the guidance of your H. And people in comas don't usually have much of a boundary as to stopping whatever procedure the medical staff decides to perform on them, kwim?

I wanted to be very clear on what I meant about just following your inner guidance and what *you* feel you should do regardless of how H thinks or perceives your actions...as this is a very very tough balancing act to perform as, no, you definitely must consider how your decisions may afect H in his present state.

FFW BF and I have been in the same sitch as your H on varying levels and for an M an A not only instantly affects our masculinity but completely demolishes our frames of reference in terms of any F interactions in the real world. Hmmm, extended delays after her workout with a personal trainer might mean a quickie is going on between them somewhere...crap like that.

But I see exactly where you're coming from because I was guilty of putting the leash on x with paranoid suspicion as well until I snapped out of it and realized making her feel confined was making her miserable.

From your quote above about the condo you are at that point...for instance, it's as if you've been locked in a small room and H is blasting the type of music you hate the most over and over again. Your instinct right now is that you are so stressed out from the cacophonic torture that your only natural response is to want to run far away from it in order to breathe and get some peace and quiet.

Again, a natural reaction as you realize internally that you need to start erecting some obstacles/boundaries against H to get fun, independent Heather back for Heather. Self must protect self first and foremost. OP who run roughshod over those with no boundaries will get angry and surprised when they run into one suddenly but it actually generates respect from them and that taking a second thought and thinking, hey, I'm doing something that triggered such a hard reaction from this otherwise docile person...maybe I've overstepped/crossed a line? Whoa, tried to cross it again and she didn't back down. Maybe I'd better stop going there from now on.

What I will also say is, yes, the thought of a nice new condo and not having to check in with anyone or feel bad about anything sounds great and it is...

For a while that is.

But once you start to refocus on memories, fun weekends together, likes and dislikes, that "knowingg" so deeply your SO that you start to remember more of the good times than the bad...that new condo suddenly becomes a very lonely and painful place.

Like I said, D is always going to be there as the rip cord. And splitting up the family will be very painful to boot. You guys just have to find some way of hitting the "reset" button on your R before you both do irreparable damage to how you feel about one another. This starts with direct solution-based communication.

I think cobra mentioned this as well. As I've said, H is going to have to start getting involved in coming up with positive R-building solutions and not new negative whippings that would make the Marquis de Sade step aside for him. Can he come up with ways to move your M forward that don't involve punishment? He should make an effort, frankly.

And sending a company-wide email out about an kiss affair 2 years after the fact is...well...I hope that it was just that he wasn't thinking too clearly at the time of the comment. Do you have a mutual male friend he trusts? Is there a guy who could just take him aside and say,

"Look, man, Heather told me about what she did. She feels like Sh!t about it and has been miserable for 2 years. You gotta stop punishing her man and deal with your anger and resentment over it because you're driving her away and killing her love for you. Come on, man, 2 years is long enough to punish someone for a mistake."

A few months ago I said I wish I could go on a car ride with H and explain how I know how he feels, how I also didn't know what my punishment was doing, and just explain that things could be sooooo much worse in terms of dwelling on A images. I got to se them practically blow by blow through a few descriptive chat exchanges. Hooray for me!

I've said before, I think H is so into his head that he can't find his way out. Yes, you HAVE to help him and not run away or be cold/indifferent to him. It's like he's trying to tell you what he wants you to do but can't since it will look as if he directed you to do xyz and it won't feel Heather-inspired to him.

And I'm thinking now it's not a certain action but rather more of a running to him.(no not in a needy way don't worry)

He wants you to soothe and comfort him as strange as that may sound to you. He is afraid you'll find another M. His behavior shows he has very low self-worth--which was greatly compounded by your pursuit of another M while he obviously (I'm going from what you posted how he treats the kids etc.) placed a great deal of importance on his idealized perception of an perfect or almost perfect family.

He's hurting, Heather. Yes, he's being a real ba$tard no doubt. But don't freeze him out, it will make it worse. Hate his actions don't hate him.. It's his pain talking. You have the choice to either engage him or just recognize his nastiness for what it is--projected anger over his inner low self-worth and hard to heal pain over your A.

-Stigmata-

[Stigmata]

Neither is calling her a asexual b!tch, or Ice queen, in front of her to all your poker buddies, like one of my associates is fond of doing. Stig, if you remember our convo about male voice and how it is received in the brain, you will see other reasons for this too.

- I know we're off thread topic, darksole, but yes. And why even F schizophrenics hear M voices exclusively just as M schizos. And these nasty depth charges drop into the unconscious unfiltered...hmmm, male voice matches male voice tonality-bing! -Accept the voice information and boooom goes the depth charge direct hit on the F's libido and self-esteem part of the unconscious.

I was going to address this further on someone or other's thread, BF, but will just say here for general purposes the unconscious, as you know, does not understand nor delineate perception from reality. It accepts all incoming information as reality and regurgitates its patterned response. (it is the consciousness that is only able to sort the real world from mind-created realities)

Why I stress internal dialogue is so important and likewise potentially dangerous.

-Stigmata-

[heatherg]

Ok, to finish my post from last night..

Blackfoot: You should be taking the stance that you will focus on being a great wife.

I find it offensive to 'focus on being a great wife'. I just want to be a great person and my H can want to be with me or not. For some reason the words 'a great wife' surface imagery of me cooking dinner and getting H his beer out of the fridge for him. That's just not me. I see the same attitudes in my sister, so clearly this must have something to do with the way we were raised. Her and I are both fiercely competitive and independent. That's why it sickens her that I stay in this M.

Blackfoot: Most people are sensitive to topics they take personally.

This is a free advice BB. Im not going to say IMO 500x per post. Its a given.
Ask yourself why you allow yourself to get so fired up. This is an important thing to identify for yourself, and your M.

I have a problem with authority. Especially perceived authority. I don't really know why. I don't even believe in God and tend to get irritated when people talk about hell, etc because it seems to go against everything a loving God would do if there was one. I went to a Lutheran school for 3rd and 4th grade and then told my parents I wanted to switch. Couldn't stand the miserable, b!tchy teachers, couldn't understand why they were so awful to the kids (maybe it was just me ) if they supposedly understood the love of God. I never felt any freakin love around there I can tell ya that. I used to go to church with a very religious boyfriend when I was 16. The preacher drove a Cadillac, his wife wore a fur and he would visit Waldenbooks where I worked frequently to buy magazines on snowmobiles, computers, etc. All things that probably 2/3 of his congregation did not have and could never afford. Even a selfish, immature 16 year old could see the injustice of that! That's just a sidenote. My Dad also yelled a lot and I've learned throughout my life that the people who think they have the most power really have none. It has caused me to question authority right from the start.

[heatherg]

Doing great kiddo.

Thanks Stig. My older brother used to call me that.

Betcha you can side kick a stack of these aforementioned 2x4s pretty handily with all that karate voodoo that you do.

Wellll, not quite yet. But thanks for the vote of confidence!! I test next Wednesday for a stripe on my yellow belt. Not that far along, not for a lack of talent my Sensai says but because of a lack of attendance I have been a yellow belt for a year now

Heck yeah, lay it on him if his beer drinking bothers you. The reason I side with you on this one is simply because you're okay with it at its current level. That and the fact that H dropped down from one hellacious habit to a six-pack or 2 with that crappy O'Douls mixed in for some good no-alcohol empty calorie fun--AFTER the A mind you.

I agree with what Lil said, that for an addict recovery means a whole lot more than just not drinking and a helluva lot more than continuing to drink, just not as much. There are times when it is apparent to me that H has an addiction to O'Douls just as he does to alcohol. It is psychological I guess. Just this past week, there were two instances where he bowed out on something because he 'had' to go to the grocery store. What do you suppose he needed? O'Douls. Lil is right, there is no doubt about it, H's addiction is still burning bright because he's never taken a stand in recovery. But it's H's problem and overall, I am much happier with his drinking than I've ever been. At least he's not getting visibly drunk anymore. The focus was on his drinking for so long, sometimes I think he's holding onto the A thing so that the focus never goes back there.

Soooo, maybe back burner and monitor; no use adding more gasoline to his A fire right now. AA will be hosting free meetings every week till the end of all known civilization unfortunately.

Agreed.

Stigmata: He knows it's not working his way and he's looking for answers.

I hope you're right. And even if he is looking to judge me and/or diagnose me, like Lou said, more than likely he will recognize his own behavior in the pages. I think we've all been down that road. If that's how his self-improvement journey begins, then I'd say he's right on track with how mine began as well. I didn't set out to fix myself, I set out to fix him!

Stigmata: Anger toward you for wanting to put a door on the guest room, clean it up and put the computer in the attic. Sure, maybe just more contrarian punishment meted out, as you say, but I'm leaning to the belief that he is afraid if he *lets* you do these things you might actually start detaching from him via being more comfortable claiming that room as your own personal space.

H did say something to this effect at some point, that doing these things made it seem permanent and he didn't want it to be permanent.

I think you might want to now consider (if you haven't already from your old threads on the other forum) turning all of the reins over to H. You give up. You haven't managed to earn his trust so please, H, pull back the curtain.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Giving up and living in the same house instead of giving up and moving out. I'll make the changes to the room, I've already indicated that if we remodel the house, I intend to take the bedroom upstairs. What do you think about the books I read? If he can see that I am still reading books titled 'Loving Fearlessly" then he will know I haven't given up. If he sees me typing on this BB, he will know I haven't given up. I need to do that stuff in private don't I?

You're realizing I think that you have spent far too much time patterning your daily behavior around how it might afect H instead of looking inside and getting your inner compass fixed as to what Heather wants out of life H or no H.

You wanna know one of the most profound things *I* learned on these boards? That whatever I think is right for me is right. I can't even remember who said it or what context it was said. People probably even tried to tell me that several times before I actually *heard* it. But when I heard it, I can remember thinking 'holy cow! seriously? is that how people really work? that's not considered selfish?' Maybe these are the reasons that Lil was so frustrated with me she felt like she needed to leave, but I can honestly say that I was never given permission in this R to act on my own feelings, I was always guided (and I allowed myself to be guided) by H's reactions to things. I am not as far along in the self discovery journey as some people and maybe I'm farther behind than many of you ever were. But geez, the circumstances in my life, hooking up with H when I was 17 didn't allow for a whole lot of self discovery, not with someone as controlling as he was. Do you know yourself when you're 17? I sure as heck didn't. And I never really learned. I only learned me with H. How my actions affected him and therefore what I should do or not do so that he would be loving toward me.
So, learning that most people let their own inner compass guide them...well, that was really news to me. In the past the only time I did that was when it got to survival mode. Never as a way of life.

You see, whenever OP slide these in at the end of comments or ambush you it's as if their inner negative dialogue suddenly pops out vocally...almost subliminally trying to go unnoticed. That's why I suggest whenever you hear this you forcefully grab it and put it up onstage in its fully naked humiliation.

This is a great idea. H mumbles a lot and I think you're right, some of his insults are meant to be heard but at the same time go unnoticed or unaddressed by me. I will use this, thanks!

Finally, I appreciate your suggestions to kill H with kindness. Hang in there with me. I'm not there. Right now, being kind is more than I can muster. Ain't that sad? It doesn't make me feel very good about myself, but I just don't have what it takes right now. Give me a little time, maybe I'll get back to a point where I can try some things.

Thanks a lot for your thoughtful posts Stig.

[blackfoot]

Your funny heather.

your posts always make me smile.

I find it offensive to 'focus on being a great wife'. I just want to be a great person and my H can want to be with me or not. For some reason the words 'a great wife' surface imagery of me cooking dinner and getting H his beer out of the fridge for him.

preferably in heels, with a lacey apron on.

Heather is a person. You are working on being a better person.

Wife is a title with a job description and responsibilities, Like mother is also.
I never said anything about dinner and fetching beer. But it was funny because in your previous post to me, you didnt finish posting, because you had to 'get dinner going'.
Sigh.

Do you really find the hard work women put into their families for the past millenia to be degrading and offensive? All this time I thought my x enjoyed showing of her culinary skills, and here I was offending her. Sheesh no more letting women invite me over and cook dinner.

Her and I are both fiercely competitive and independent. Your H was fiercly independant with regards to your wishes and desires about his alcohol consumption too. How did that make you feel. Marriage is about being a team. Not adversaries. Competition is not going to be very productive.

That's why it sickens her that I stay in this M.
Its sad that your family and one of your closest friends is having a hard time supporting your choice, in a positive manner. I had much the same when x had her A and I had to put several of them in their place. Since they couldnt offer me encouragement or support, and mistakenly thought disparaging remarks about my x were ok, they had to keep their mouth shut, about her, around me.

I have is that H is *telling* me and is ready to enforce that I may not sleep in my bed. That is not right.
Your correct. Its not right.

H has a choice to sleep where he wants and so do I. If one's intention is not to control another, they would not set the boundary as 'you cannot do this...'. Boundaries are what you set for your own behavior right

Awesome. yes they are. Boundaries are also for informing someone else how they can treat you.

Lets make sure you are not engaging in demands, or false boundaries, and hurtful actions. Once that is done, then you have removed yourself from the tit for tat game. I was getting ready to offer an idea for getting back into your bed, when all the other crap from the past month blew up. I think others were too.

It would be more appropriately said "I will not sleep in the bed if you are there" or something similar, which at least gives me the option of making my own choice.

your correct. Look back at yourself. what have you done or are doing that attempted to not give him choice over himself?

healthy behavior attracts healthy behavior.

P.S

Whats for dinner?

[heatherg]

Ok, I've been trying to catch up on a few posts. Let me just summarize the older stuff by saying the following:

Burgbud, thanks for noticing the underlying current in some of the posts to me. I appreciate you taking a stand on the general idea, yet in defense of me. Karen asked me a few questions about how I felt about what was said and my answer is that I definitely felt 'talked down to'. It's all water under the bridge now and I'm thinking that Lil simply wasn't feeling heard here. I can tell her that I really did hear her, but ultimately I think the reasons she decided not to post on my thread anymore probably have less to do with me than they do with her and/or her own history.

Blackfoot: Your funny heather.

your posts always make me smile.

Why thanks, it is nice to know that someone in the world besides my kids and my Mom are smiling as a result of something I have to say. Hopefully you meant ha-ha funny and not you're-an-idiot funny.

Blackfoot: Wife is a title with a job description and responsibilities, Like mother is also.
I never said anything about dinner and fetching beer. But it was funny because in your previous post to me, you didnt finish posting, because you had to 'get dinner going'.
Sigh.

LOL, now that *is* funny. I love making dinner, don't get me wrong. The Food Network is my alltime FAVORITE channel!! It's just not my 'job'. I do it because I like to. And when I don't feel like it, I don't. It's not expected of me. But, just for the record, I am a helluva cook when I want to be I don't mean to sound like I'm completely incompetant, I just feel like a M is a partnership, a team like you said. No part is greater than the sum. A W is not a W without an H. Does that make sense? The night you referenced for instance, with dinner, I got up and got dinner going (spaghetti) and H got up and cut the onion, etc. We do it together. But I consider it my job to make sure we have what we need and I typically plan the meals. But we do things together and if we don't have dinner (a fend for yourself kinda night) H doesn't look at me and say 'WTH? Why do we not have dinner on the table?' I am not a W....I am the other half of this team and my name happens to be Heather.

Do you really find the hard work women put into their families for the past millenia to be degrading and offensive? All this time I thought my x enjoyed showing of her culinary skills, and here I was offending her. Sheesh no more letting women invite me over and cook dinner.

No, no! Women in our history have shown such strength and resilience.....it creates awe for me and makes me proud to carry the legacy. It's just that they way I carry the legacy is much different than the way women before me have. Times are different now and such change has allowed women the opportunity to express themselves and their strengths in many different ways. I am not here to knock the woman who grabs a beer out of the fridge for her H.....if beer didn't have the history in my M that it does, hell, I'd grab him a beer. Expectations bother me. Not making dinner. Not grabbing a beer. I want to be me like only I can, not the way someone else wants.

Blackfoot: Competition is not going to be very productive.

I didn't so much mean that I am competitive with H, I just meant that I am competitive in general. I have the underlying belief that if you work for something, you can achieve it. While that is a quality I would not forfeit, it does create a feeling of entitlement. Being so competitive makes it difficult for me to accept that....how did Cobra put it?......ah yes, that I have a screwed up M and my H is a lush. Oh yeah and I cheated, let's not forget that.


Blackfoot: Its sad that your family and one of your closest friends is having a hard time supporting your choice, in a positive manner. I had much the same when x had her A and I had to put several of them in their place.

It's just really hard to explain this place we come to....those of us on the self-discovery, self-improvement journey....where we live with so much BS, learning to wade through it and rise above it instead of contributing to it. It seems that people only arrive in this place at a time of crisis, so unless they can relate to such a crisis, they tend to think you are weak rather than strong.

Blackfoot: your correct. Look back at yourself. what have you done or are doing that attempted to not give him choice over himself?

Aside from my A, I can honestly say that I can't think of anything that I have done whereby I did not give him choice over himself. He always has the option to choose, i.e I've never purposely tried to take his choices away....although I admit to trying to limit his ability to control *my* choices.

Blackfoot, I know that you feel I was manipulative and tried to push H despite his boundary of not riding in my truck. I just don't feel that way. I wanted to pick H up from the airport....as much as I despise what he does to me, I still prefer when he's here (if he's speaking to me and being friendly). I just feel that it is childish to not ride in my vehicle. If I were him, I would say "Fine, feel whatever you want about my boundary". But I would not in turn expect him to ride in different vehicles to accomodate me. You make boundaries like that, you need to be prepared to live with the consequences which may be that your partner calls 'bullshit'. H wants to set boundaries and that's easy to do when your partner complies with every single one. I'm not that easy.

[heatherg]

Hey Sheila, it's so good to see you whenever you pop in! I appreciate your ongoing support. Leaving our M is the hardest decision your or I will ever make....I am so glad to hear that your kids are thriving. I know there is life on the other side because people like you take time out of your days and away from the pain of your own situations to reassure me of that.....thank you, so much.

I remember a post on your thread in infidelity.. it's not making the right decision, but making the decision right that counts. It's stuck with me and helped along the way.

Yes, I loved that...I actually saw it posted somewhere else and brought it over to my thread. It makes so much sense and helps bring some peace to otherwise indecisive people like me Glad you found some words on my thread that were able to help you because you sure left many helpful words behind.

I think it's great that you and H are getting along better and that he started his IC (finally!). Maybe you'll be able to salvage a R, but at the very least, your kids are sure to benefit from becoming less enmeshed with one another.

Peace Sheila, in the greatest sense of the word.

[Cobra]

Heather,

I think many here have been never bit as frustrated with your sitch as you have yourself. You’ve got a lot of walls built up and it is SOOOO hard to get through. Sometimes I think there is little more that can be done than to lay the truth in hard hitting words. I know that is what ticks off Burgbud, and while I and possibly others are responsible for making the decision to use such direct statements, you are also responsible for shutting down and not hearing the message in a diplomatic statement. I make the error in assuming that if you don’t get my message, it is because I have not presented my idea in a way that “clicked” with you. It is up to the communicator to get the message across. It is very difficult for the listener to infer a cryptic message. Perhaps Burgbud thinks this approach is better, but I have found myself wasting a lot of time with that method, both as sender and receiver.

I am seeing another side of you that I had not focused on before. The following is the second time you’ve mentioned your sister:

I find it offensive to 'focus on being a great wife'. I just want to be a great person and my H can want to be with me or not. For some reason the words 'a great wife' surface imagery of me cooking dinner and getting H his beer out of the fridge for him. That's just not me. I see the same attitudes in my sister, so clearly this must have something to do with the way we were raised. Her and I are both fiercely competitive and independent. That's why it sickens her that I stay in this M.

First let me say that I think your sister is guilty of simple projection of hr issues onto you, but those issues are identical to yours. What is it in your FOO that makes you both so “fiercely competitive and independent?” My wife is EXACTLY like this and likes to think of herself as a rebel or warrior against a male dominated and oppressive society, protecting the rights of women, kids, the weak, blah, blah, blah…. She wears this strength and aggressiveness (she would call is assertiveness) as a badge of honor, a source of self esteem and confidence. I have come to realize the opposite is true.

What she thinks is a “medal” I see as really a lead weight around her neck. She expends tremendous energy fighting the “cause,” just as other crusaders do. The real question is what sustains them? Is it really pursuit of an ideal? Is it to right an injustice? Maybe it is with some of that, but underneath all of this is a real live FOO issue needing resolution. I believe my wife is simply insecure, self conscious and hurt by the abandonment from her past and has built up a façade to convince herself that she really is strong. I have a lot of this within me too. She will admit to her issues in principle, but doing something about them is another matter. That is just too scary for her and is something I am still dealing with.

Tying this back to you, I wonder if you don’t have the same or similar issues at play which keep you in this “fiercely competitive and independent” mode. I can see just how this keeps you and your H locked in your power struggle. We’ve pretty well identified the fear your H is experiencing and which drives his actions. Since you two are opposite sides of the same coin, you might take a look at how you mirror and thus exacerbate his behavior.

H did say something to this effect at some point, that doing these things made it seem permanent and he didn't want it to be permanent.

Yep, he’s scared alright. This was a crack in his façade. I think it is a very important statement and one which you should follow up on as far as you possibly can. It leads directly to his deepest fears, as well as yours. I am beginning to think you two need to start digging into your FOO to find a way to get unstuck. Nothing else has worked. It seems you other approaches have not given the support and comfort he needs. Yeah, same goes for my wife. So I am still trying to crack her shell.

Let me divert slightly…

I have a problem with authority. Especially perceived authority.

All authority is perceived. What other kind is there?

I don't really know why. I don't even believe in God and tend to get irritated when people talk about hell, etc because it seems to go against everything a loving God would do if there was one.

Think about your position on God. When you say you do not believe, you are taking the exact same position as someone who does believe. You have taken the leap of faith and made a conscious decision to not believe, just as other make a decision to believe. There is no difference in your philosophical position. Neither stance can prove its position is right. The only different position is to be agnostic, because a decision is made not to take the leap of faith because proof is non-existent. It is the only philosophically different position from being a believer or a non-believer. So as a non-believer, is there really any justification in your ranting against the church?

My point is that you should soften your positions and your feeling of righteousness. Sure your experience in grade school makes a good argument for not believing, but it is not sufficient. It is just circumstantial. It is a justification.

My wife has similar problems with religion. I have had the same feeling too, but have come to realized that my objection really stemmed from the more extremist types, who looked down on others because they did not believe as they “should.” Sure those people are hypocrites, but why did it bother me? Because I was unsure of myself. I did not FEEL the inner confidence and security I needed, even though I thought I had it on an intellectual level. The two are not the same. I was trying to regain some level of control over this feeling of insecurity and inferiority. Is your attitude really an attempt to regain control from those who once controlled you? Are your positions on the church just a manifestation of your deeper FOO issues?

If you are comfortable with your belief in God (or non-belief), then you should be comfortable with the concept of taking a leap of faith. So putting you faith in your H and making yourself vulnerable, revealing to him all your true needs and desires, should be possible. I know it won’t be easy, but you need to open yourself to this eventuality if you are ever going to get your marriage back.

My Dad also yelled a lot and I've learned throughout my life that the people who think they have the most power really have none. It has caused me to question authority right from the start.

This is very true. So why do you and your H practice the same thing? Aren’t the both of you replaying the scenario from Schnarch in which he tells Audrey (I think) that she is perpetrating her mother’s abuse? It all about confronting our fears.