Thanks for the defense, c. I think people come here to hear the truth as we strangers see it, similarly afflicted as we are with the very issues other posters are grappling with. We don't generally blow sunshine up each other's dresses/pants.

Heather, I came on strong to you because I'm trying to get your attention. When I said your statement was BS, what I meant is that you are BS-ing yourself IMHO. You are not facing the truth of your situation. The ship is going down, and you are bailing with a teaspoon. I'm trying to give you the benefit of my 57 years of hard knocks. Disregard if you want. Goodness knows, I ignored all the people who told me to bail from this relationship...

Just for clarification: alanon is for the families/friends of alcoholics; AA is for the alcoholics. If H goes anywhere, it will be to AA, not to alanon.

Cobra, the position I take, namely that she should go to alanon and not demand that her H do anything, is not something I made up. It's the position and strategy that is usually recommended by alcohol treatment programs including the self-help groups. I worked for two alcohol treatment programs writing grants for 11 years and 13 years each, and became very familiar with the "party line," before I got involved with my own alcoholic. In addition to attending alanon for a couple of years, I also saw an alcoholism-oriented therapist for a while, just to understand what would be the most EFFECTIVE way of dealing with my bf.

BTW, this counselor told me in the fall of 2003 to dump him and run like the wind. The C was a recovering alcoholic/addict and said I was headed for a hard, sad life. This was before my bf stopped drinking. Another therapist that we both went to said in a private session with me that bf was not capable of changing enough to engage in a mature relationship, even if he did stop drinking. And then, of course, there's my phone psychic who's been telling me to bail from the very beginning. So, Heather, I'm hardheaded and don't take advice either.

The thing is, the alcoholic marriage is a whole syndrome-- the drinking isn't exactly the cause, it's just one of the manifestations. The addict has a certain personality, and unless s/he gets into a recovery program, which means a LOT more than just ceasing to drink, and a HELLUVA more than continuing to drink, but drinking less, the addict personality will still be operating. Alcohol is only a part of the problem, but it's a place to get a toehold.

And yes, sometimes it takes a crisis to let the alcoholic know that you are serious about your decision not to be with him/her anymore in the presence of alcohol. I grappled with setting that boundary for a couple of years. But when the day came when I knew I couldn't take it anymore, it was easy. Heather, you haven't reached that point yet.

A really good source (including a message board) on alcoholism is www.soberrecovery.com