Am I Creating a SSM Part IV

[heatherg]

OGLou: You might be right he is trying to diagnose you but I also bet he will see himself in the book and see how relationships go south and maybe some insights as how to improve what you two have.

I thought of this too. I've also thought that it was all just a ploy to get me to read the book. He has not brought the book into the house, it has been in his truck since I 'caught' him reading it. I'm leaning more toward the idea that he wanted me to read it.

Jabez:If your in a hotel/motel room is there really a sense of the marital bed vs. the daybed? It's just a bed.

I'm not really sure what you mean here. For me, the only sense of 'bed' is that we sleep together. For him, it isn't about the bed, it's about letting me sleep with him. People have mentioned getting rid of the bed. Nothing happened to 'contaminate' our bed the way H might think my truck has been 'contaminated'. When we go to hotels, etc he will sleep with the kids or in some other bed, he won't sleep with me then either. This weekend was the first night he has slept with me in two years.

Koshka: Trust your gut.....As far as "the truck" goes, if H wanted to get over "the truck" because it'd be best for your M if he did, then he would. Right now he doesn't seem to want to get over it.

I agree.

Al Anon could be wonderful for you.

For some reason, I feel about this the way I felt about counseling before my A. Like it is somehow a negative thing. I don't want to do anything that would make me lose credibility with H and I feel like AlAnon at this stage would do that. He would be confused about 'why now?' and I'm afraid I don't have any answer for him. He would see it as me holding on to past issues.

Koshka: The Middies get their commissions this week. Lots of uniforms and disrupted traffic.

Cool! Not about the traffic though! That was such an awesome experience for me.

MrsNop simple straightforward sentences. "Mommy was willing to pick up daddy at the airport but we were unable to agree on how to do it. Aren't we all glad that daddy's home?"

Why can't I think of this stuff myself? Seriously? Instead, my first thought is just 'what a jerk'.

MrsNop Have you ever expressed to him how you felt demeaned by the sex without kissing and without being able to stay in the marital bed?

Yes, I have. He has said on some level, he can see where I'm coming from. But, apparently not enough to make him want to change his perspective on the issue. He has also said that if I want sex just as much as he does, or initiate it, how can I feel demeaned or used then?

MrsNop: Hasn't he expressed the opinion that you haven't paid enough?

Indirectly. He has said things like 'you haven't shown remorse'. He has gotten angry at times when I've tried to better my situation by putting a door on the room I stay in or clean out the room. Lately, I've mentioned putting the computer that hasn't been turned on (literally) in at least 7-8 months, in the attic. I had the hard drive slicked and when I realized it was going to cost just as much to purchase windows XP practically as it would to get a new computer, I was going to buy a new one. So, I never hooked the old one up again or loaded any software on it. It's just been sitting there. But at any mention of putting it in the attic, he says no. It is instances like these that are dead give aways to me that he wants to see me suffer by not having a space of my own. There are a million other 'consequences' to my A that I live with every day. He holds steadfast to his sarcasm 'You haven't suffered, oh, you've just been soo miserable haven't you?!'

MrsNop: I wonder if there is an opportunity where you can ask him whether or not he feels better after these episodes. Whether or not they satisfy his sense of being repaid.

I seriously don't know if I want to know the answer to that. How can I want to recommit to a person who gets satisfaction from seeing me hurt?

MrsNop: I remember you saying that he has travelled a lot and at one point worked away from home for 7 weeks.

Make that 7 months.

MrsNop: I confess that I have wondered whether or not he has had his own indiscretion and is sublimating his own guilt via his anger at you. Is there any likelyhood in that?

Probably not. He cheated in all the ways he could and still have a relatively clean conscience. He used to go to strip clubs, he's got a porn habit, and had a pretty intense R with alcohol. H is not a social creature. He was a virgin when he and I got together and he was 20. Now, I know that isn't completely unheard of, but it is rare. He just doesn't have the social aspects down enough to have a real live affair. But who knows what has gone on with web cams and misc porn sites. That, I would not put past him one bit.

Karen: Whatever you do and how you feel, know that you have cyber friends here that understand

Thanks Karen.

Stigmata: Been lurking a bit on you and just wanted to give you a thumbs up on your very evident shift to stop enabling behaviors that weren't working in the past in favor of standing up for your integrity without falling into your ever so ingrained pattern of losing anger control.

Thanks Stig. I feel like this has been a real accomplishment for me. It has caused some serious issues with H, but I feel at this point I have to do the things that are going to allow me to remain in the M and that means acting on my own behalf. If I keep going against my own sense of right and wrong, I will eventually get to the point where I hate him so much that leaving is the only feasible option. I've been really, really close to that as it is. I do want to save my M, but not at any cost. I'm glad that there are a few others that see where I am coming from.

Stigmata: Heather: H, the sky is blue.

H: No it isn't.

Heather: Yes it is.

H: If you say so. Whatever. You're always right after all.


I had to laugh when I read this. Someone else, I can't remember who offhand, said something similar to the effect of if I said I was a woman and H said I wasn't, would I argue such a silly point? I thought to myself 'ok, point taken'. So, I had a chance to practice this. H said something to argue against something I said. I asked him a question and then I said "You know what forget it. You don't need to answer that. The absurdity of me even discussing this is similar to me stating that I am a woman and then you saying 'no you're not'." He said "An *honest* woman? That's another story." He didnt' miss a beat.

Stigmata: Not until he "sees" that one big thing to show him you are commited to him and have proven your remorse. I'll give you a hint. It has 4 wheels and is sitting out in your driveway right now.

I disagree with the 'one big thing' idea. It isn't one big thing. He wants me to consider his feelings in all that I do and then act according to how he feels. If I act on my own feelings, then I am selfish, not committed, haven't changed, etc. There isn't one big thing. It's everything. It's karate. It's my business dinner. It's staying at a hotel. It's countless other things that have happend over the months and continue to happen that makes him sure I am not 'committed' to him.

Stigmata: I can just picture myself walking with x into the OB GYN's office. Um, yes, doctor, we are here because I would like to exchange this vagina in for a brand new one. I won't touch it.

OMG, that is hilarious Hilarious but not. But did you read where Koshka said that if H wanted to do what was best for the M, he would let some of these things go. H doesn't want to do what's best for the M, he doesn't *want* to get over it. I think there is a lot of truth to that. Affairs are no easy thing to get past, but if you want to get past it, you will. If you don't, you won't. I have not done every single thing H thinks I should do. But every disagreement is not proof of a lack of commitment. I've told him that we did not always agree prior to my A and it is not reasonable to expect we will agree on everything now. It is also not reasonable to expect that if we disagree that I will bend to his will every single time. I am my own person with my own thoughts and my own opninions and my OWN FREE WILL. He wants to take that away from me and he wants to let me help him feel justified in doing it. No way. BTDT with him, will not go back whether his behavior is 'justified' this time or not.

Stigmata: I hate to see you have to do something so senseless and otherwise avoidable, Heather, but how much is your peace of mind and peace of the R worth?

I hear ya. If it was just a couple of things, I'd agree. Let's just get rid of the problems. As I've mentioned, it's not just the bed (the bed isn't the problem anyway, he just refuses to sleep with me) and the truck. It's tons of things that keep coming up that 'prove' his point. Ok, so I give on the truck. What about the bed? What about next time I have a business dinner? What about.....things go on and on. He pits him against me whenever we differ opinions. If I start giving in to 'save my M' I will be giving in forever. Guarantee it. There are too many issues to keep going against my inner compass. I really do have to trust myself because if I don't, pretty soon I won't even be able to hear my own inner voice over his.

Stigmata: And drinking all day and not eating until 1 a.m. will seriously mess with your blood sugar and brain chemistry in a not good way. Make you unbalanced.


I didn't mean to imply that he doesn't eat all day. He just doesn't eat dinner.

Stigmata: Getting your reactive anger controlled is beautiful. It used to set you all the way back to square one. Now you gotta start finding ways to kill H with kindness.

You're right, it did always set me back to square one. I agree that kindness is the best next step. It's hard for me to not have expectations. I can do it for a while and when it seems like it's 'not working', I get hopeless. You have to understand, I don't feel kind toward H. I barely love him anymore. I am only here because of our history and our kids. I want to make a new R with him, sort of start over and choose each other again. But there's very little about him that I would choose again. It is difficult for me to act like I love him and that I want to recommit under these circumstances......I just want to come to a place where we can both acknowledge that we are here for the kids, fine. Let's make the most of it. Let's try to make our R a priority and see where we can go. No promises, no guarantees. Killing him with kindness while he gets some smug satisfaction from causing me pain is practically more than I can bear for an extended time period.

Blackfoot suggested that I just be honest with myself and if I can't do what it takes, then say I can't. At this point, it seems I can't do what it will take. Not by myself anyway.