The trick is to identify these faults as faults. It's not always easy to do. Especially if the faults relate to interpersonal communication.
Example: It took me a little time but I eventually identified my major faults, understood them as such and was able to start affecting change. My W does not desire to spend much time thinking about these issues. She may vocalize her opinion, but when I ask why she feels that way, she will typically respond with an "I don't know" or a "what difference does it make". While I try to understand where she is coming from, W does not want to know, nor does she feel it important.
When your spouse has a basic flaw such as fear of intimacy (real intimacey) They will never identify their personal flaws. Thus, one spouse is left to deal with holding things togather, waiting for the other to start carrying their end of the relationship.
Compassion for our spouses faults is a give and take deal. It's hard to keep giving compassion if you don't ever receive any. This is not my situation, but I do see a bit of this on the bb.
We don't want to do too much for our spouses as to prevent them from experiencing personal growth. I try not show too much compassion for W's faults. Rather, I just don't beat her up with them. I want her to change her negative and unthoughtful behavior just like I changed mine. Before she can do this, W will need to start thinking about things rather than just "being". I try to nudge her into thinking. I don't do this alot as I don't want to piss her off with one of my old "more of the same" behaviors.
I would say that things are going pretty good for us. W has alot of catching-up to do but she is working on it. Me, I don't have anything better to be doing.
Thanks for responding Kent. Amazing how we sound so much alike again. I'm the "thinker" in our relationship. I think way too much. My H is tremedously focused on his work and spends little energy thinking about relationships. He's a beer hmmm that doesn't look right, he likes to just be, he's a be-er. He admits that he probably thinks too little.
I am scrupulously honest to an extreme, my H is guarded. He told me that he doesn't always tell me the truth (this was actually comforting for me to hear because this is what I sense and when he denies it I get very confused). I tell him "everything".
Lately I tried an experiment. I took some "private time". It felt like I would be lying if I didn't at least tell him I had taken this time and didn't want to tell hm about what I did, so this is what I told him. It was rather scarey because I saw a role reversal and realized that he really does withhold from me even though he denies this. So my task is to learn to get calm with more clearly seeing what I've known all along. (Know that's pretty vague but maybe folks here can understand it?)
A big fault of mine is that I can sound critical to loved ones. Many times I don't feel critical or see it as an insignificant comment not a big issue. I've hurt my daughter, my mother and my H with this characteristic without realizing it until later, sometimes years later. My father, brother, and grandmother share this trait and I've been on the receiving end with them. It feels very bad. Wish I could never do that again for the rest of my life.
I also tend to be a Know-it-all. Another yuck trait that needs to go. Anybody else out there who has some wise words about this?
Better get to work on those items! ...also my messy house.
[This message has been edited by alottolearn (edited 03-19-2001).]
It seems some of our characteristics are hard wired and have their positive as well as negative side. My H is guarded but he almost never says hurtful things.
Perhaps along with making healthful changes, we also, to a degree, need to learn to live with our and other's "faults" and learn to find their positive side. Especially to appreciate and respect that we probably acquired them "honestly" in attempt to cope with hurts.
For me it has seemed like we were building our marriage for the first time. It feels like uncharted waters and it would help so much to have support and understanding from others who've been here and done this. That's why I'm hoping that the "Piecing Our Marriage Back Together" topic becomes very active.
Now that my H is being more honest, (he admits that he is still not completely honest) I know better who he really is as a person. He was a fantasy to me before. Now that he is more genuine I find myself disappointed on the one hand, because he is not all I thought he was (this is hard to admit), but on the other hand our relationship feels so much more authentic that it fills me with hope. Holding these types of conflicting feelings at the same time (there have been many very strong conflicting feelings on this journey) has been quite difficult.
My H has made very important changes. I am very proud of him for these changes. It is as though he's been able to do what he wasn't able to do in our relationship before.
Wish I could see my part in it all better! See some and will keep working on it.
ALTL
[This message has been edited by alottolearn (edited 03-26-2001).]
For me it has seemed like we were building our marriage for the first time ********************** We are building it for the first time. When we married we were blind, we were silly, we were in lust. Well, we are'nt blind anymore. It can be pretty scary at times.
I think the only way a marriage can be built on honesty, trust and real love is by trial and tribulation. Otherwise, the blindness would be perpetual.
Good point Kent. It feels exciting to us also to know that we are building something stronger than we ever knew could be. I'm confident that my H too feels like we are entering a world never known till you start stepping into it. We take a step of trust and 5 positive alternative routes become visible that we didn't see before. We still have a lot to work out (I'm posting some under staying solution focused about this) but we love each other better than ever before. It's been painful but I do cherish this precious journey and hope we can keep learning.
Bit of a tough day for me. Saw my psychiatrist last Wed. He essentially told my H that he probably would be wise to back off from his new female friend. After the session asked my H to talk to me about the session after a few days. He had a grueling work schedule for the weekend so I was extra gentle, patient and kind. Yesterday I started having more bad memories crop up and started feeling crappy that here a week later he hasn't addressed the session. This morning I was really feeling plagued. Asked him to talk to me about the session and related issues again. I have found that when he follows up on agreements like this things go well. When he forgets I start hurting again. Generally, talking helps us. Writing helps even more so maybe we could address it this way.
As my H is committed to working things out, our relationship seems to be more about creating a mutually satisfying full partnership. BELIEVE ME, I am tremendously grateful that we are in this wonderful phase and not still struggling to establish firm committment. Still there are difficulties to resolve. Guess this is just par for marriage and sure makes sense that you'd be extra concerned about getting it right after what we've been through. What do you think folks?
I am there...literally-we too have committed to stay together and make our marriage work. My biggest problem now is 'now what?'. I have said this before and will say it again, now it seems like we're back where we were before the A, back into a 'groove'. This groove is not necessarily a bad thing, I realize that relationships mature and will not sustain the same level of intensity as they had in the beginning. We are comfortable with each other, we know each other-on a daily basis, routines, likes and dislikes. We are buddies and laugh a lot (sometimes at/with each other).
That scares me too because I really don't know what's inside his head and after all this, like you said, after what we've been through, I don't want to make the same mistakes again. Of course, knowing what they were would be a start....he still maintains I did nothing wrong. OK, so I didn't MAKE him have an A with OW....didn't hold a gun to his head, but I cannot be entirely blamless either. And like I told him, I won't know if you don't - or - CAN'T tell me.
He's at least thinking about it. And has been for a few weeks now.
One last thought...I hope this one gets a lot of replies....do you feel sort of strange telling your spouse who has cheated on you that you "love" them? Sometimes it makes me feel like a hypocrit. I wonder how they feel saying it...after having (possibly) saying it to OW/OM. Wonder if I should ask H...wonder if he'd answer. Hmm..
Me2, My feelings for my H, family, close friends, do not depend on how they feel about me. If I love someone it is a fact that stands on it's own. I am very blessed in that though my family was plenty dysfunctional, there was also a lot of this kind of fully committed love. I have always loved my H and have no problem saying so.
Now--how close I can be to my loved ones has everything to do with how they treat me, themselves, people in general, and how they handle life in general. (I hasten to add that I've got a long way to go to be everything I want to be!!!) Anyway, if all is well I can experience intimacy, feel completely accepted as myself and feel respected and loved. If all is not well then I can love from afar.
My H was not so fortunate. He doesn't know this kind of love exists...but he is learning. He lied to me about our reality and he lied to the OW about his love for her. He was "brain dead", lights out, nobody home. He is happy that life can be so much better than he ever thought it could be. He still has no idea. However I do. As Walter Brenen (oops showing my age) would say "no brag just fact". Just lately he told me that he loves me because I love him. To me that is not love but I smiled sweetly because I believe he is headed in the right direction and one of these days he will get it.
I have decided that I will not compromise myself any more. It seems wise to me to love my H from a bit further away until he learns a bit more. I lost too much of my soul during "the dark years" and the top priority is to get it back. Creating a happy, healthy marriage is mighty important but it comes second. Absolutely intend to love him, meet his needs as best I can, and to figure out how to do this and take great care of myself at the same time.
Hows them apples?
[This message has been edited by alottolearn (edited 04-01-2001).]
I don't think that I love my H because of how he treats me, if I did, I certainly would not be here still. I have loved other men in my life, almost married one and did live with him for close to 2 years...anyway-I know I love my H, like I've loved no other man, I don't want to be without him and know whatever happens I will never be able to feel this same kind of thing for any other man...matter of fact, nothing he could ever do in his life would make me stop loving him. Much like the love I have for my children, but different at the same time. However, his actions (i.e. the A) make it more difficult for me to express this to him. I have told him this. It's like you said, loving from afar. I'm not sure if the guilt-thing is from me not thinking he deserves my love anymore because of what he did (A) or because I feel like I 'drove him to A', again, taking the 'blame'.
The love will not change, for us I don't think "love" has ever been the issue, as far as not loving anymore. And if it was for him, he never let me in on it.
He maintains that the A was all a big lie, and he felt nothing for her. She was just 'there' and 'someone to talk to' (so then why the sex I asked....). I read all these posts about how hard it is for cheating spouses to let go of that OM/OW and how it likens an addiction. My H waffled for about 4 days in sending an email to OW when I thought is was just a computer EA, he said she was out of town and would not get email until the day he sent it anyway (?). H says he never opened another message from her, changed his IM screen name and stopped using email account he used to talk to her on. I insisted he tell her the truth that he was married and that if he did not I would. The only other thing I asked was 'to what end with her/do you want her or your family?...YOU decide'. Then I stopped the intensity of contact I had had with him (he was living in the mid-east for his job)-I have since realized that I was DB'ing while not knowing it!
He has not had any other contact with her, she even corroborated this when I emailed her in Nov.
So...again I must struggle with the WHY? He didn't love her. Says he never stopped loving me. He didn't NEED her, says he needs me and always has. Says he does not think about her or miss her. Ok...so WHY???
This still drives me crazy. I know I have a (tiny) tendency to overanalyze things...I need to let this go for now and occupy my mind with other stuff.
Deep down I believe we'll make it through this...but I am the only one that can get me there. I can only believe in myself, and my resolve to make OR work, and my love. How sad that sounds....I used to believe in him too, probably even more than in myself-course, that's probably where the problem started.
hmmm that doesn't look right, he likes to just be, he's a be-er. He admits that he probably thinks too little.