Mea Maxima culpa!

[Neos_wife]

Please, don't think me too insensitive, because I know it takes all kinds, and to each his or her own, but as I keep reading your thread, you seem like you are taking a rational (as much as possible anyway) approach to this otherwise rational man doing irrational things. It seems like that is NOT the case here.

You’re proven many many times over that you’re not insensitive: in fact you’re extremely wise and kind – so no worries, dear Grasshopper. Your advice is always very welcome. Yes, I am trying to be the rational one here; as my H is being irrational. (ONE of us has to try to be, and he’s not capable of it right now!) (He truly IS otherwise/other times a rational man... the suicide thing is (in my eyes anyway) standard for a clinically depressed man with his world view(s)– even though he refuses to acknowledge, accept, or consider himself depressed.

Your H seems like a irrational man doing even more irrational things and your "rational" reactions seem VERY out of place.

I find him to be (generally) very rational, save only his few... quirks... I am sure you realize I cannot possibly present him ‘wholly’ in short messages about only one area of our lives. Obviously, the stuff I am presenting here shows only his difficult and problematic side. I’ve lived very happily with him for nine years, and find him to be wonderful and a great husband – with those few quirks...

Again, forgive me if I have this all wrong, but your H seems to have some SERIOUS problems that extend WAY beyond a normal MLC or cheating issue.

He does indeed – and always has. Do I wish he were never suicidal? All the time. But then, I wish I were thinner and richer; if wishes were horses..., eh?

His CONSTANT threat of suicide (several times you have posted that he has threatened this)

{shrug} It’s a part of who he is, and has always been (he swallowed turpentine as a teen – this is not some weird new facet of his personality but an old and familiar one). I understand his reasoning, and it’s sound. I think suicide is taking the coward’s way out, but his reasoning is actually rational, if one accepts his premises. I do accept his premises, I understand his reasoning. I just prefer that he override his “reasons” for it, and live on in the hopes that things will get better. That’s MY view, not his.

and the "Your (ow) feelings are always more important than my own" stuff suggests that H is not anywhere close to being someone who could even participate in a marriage that DB suggests we try to have where each member of the partnership is responsible for and DESIRING of their own happiness.

He is fulfilled when his wife (previous or me) is happy. He doesn’t remember a time in his life when he was happy. (I mentioned, didn’t I, that he is depressed? {wry G})

You seem to be ok with this idea but will he ever be? You seem to be quite calm and accepting DB as a pretty good thing to have as part of your life, but I am questioning whether DB can work in the face of someone who is so far off the charts in terms of codependency and what SEEMS to be (in my COMPLETELY lay-person's opinion) serious mental health issues (mainly the suicide threats).

I happen to AGREE he has serious mental health issues. I have asked and tried to convince him to try drugs, or therapy, or even “nutritional supplements” – he flat out refuses. He gets offended and angry when I try to, as he says, “medicalize” his situation. I am quite calm about the fact that he has serious mental health issues, that I love him and wish to stay with him, and that DBing is the only option I see to try to make that happen. I cannot “make” him get mentally healthy, nor force him to get help to try to get healthy. (I compare it to cancer – if my beloved husband got cancer – would I dump him as hopeless? Same thing in my mind.)

If he were to return to you like he is, and from what you have said he's been that way long before the whole affair thing happened I think, do you think you could carry on knowing what you know now about the importance of caring for YOU first before you care for others?

Yes. It IS in my best interests to stay married to him, to keep him at the center of my life... Okay, not exactly at the center – because I am and have always been the center of my own life. One of the things our marriage counselor (from several years ago) stresses is that your mate, your partner, must add to an already-whole life. You must first make your own life whole, (as I had done, having decided that I was never going to marry) and then to be a good candidate for marriage, the other person must add to your life. My H does just that, and always has. My life is whole, and if we end up divorced, or he ends up killing himself, my life will be whole then too. I will miss him TERRIBLY, but I will (most likely) find a new love, and will definitely find a different life.

I have been, in some ways (not the suicide part) like your H. I have said those kinds of things like "I am only doing this for you. I don't really care one way or another, what YOU want is most important to me honey." or "I just want to be with you and nothing else matters to me." or "As long as you're happy, I'm happy." I would NOT say ANY of those things now because I know what I'm really doing is putting the burden of my life, my happiness on my W and that's not only not fair to her, but not fair to me either.

I struggled with that early on– because he is not a happy man, and I felt I should “help” him be happy. I finally learned to leave him be – he is NOT a happy kinda guy, and I cannot make him be so. He DOES take pleasure in my happiness, and that has to do. I hope that someday he’ll experience happiness of his own, but it’s not MY path, not MY burden. I can only live my life, enjoy and try to share MY happinesses, and let him learn to or not as he chooses to. (Yes, it breaks my heart that he is so unhappy – but can anyone “make” someone else happy?)

I am trying not to be too harsh, but the longer this goes on, and the more I read about this, lifestyle differences aside, I am confounded at why you keep acting (and pardon me if it's just getting lost in the translation of your thoughts to post) as if what he's doing is completely normal aside from the cheating part. Like I said, reading your posts, he seems like a pretty unstable guy that could use some professional help right now to deal with his own issues, let alone his issues with you.

{shrug} I agree; we’d have a better chance of making this marriage survive if only he would get some real help. He won’t. So, all I can do is all I can do. That includes DBing the heck out of him, as I wrote; and also preparing for my life without him if he kills himself. Fingers crossed, the DBing works, if not, I’ll survive.

Once (last time I swear) again, forgive me for this if I am just way off base. I know this is a trying time for you AND him and that can affect people in many ways, causing them to do and say things that the outside world may never understand. I just fear for him, for obvious reasons, and you by association because it seems like someone who thinks such dark thoughts on such a regular basis is capable of extending those thought to others in his life if you know what I mean.

No, I’m not worried (too much) about my own safety... I have made my lawyer aware of the two threats he has made against me, and made HIM aware that my lawyer and family know. (I didn’t and don’t really believe his threats – they seemed too “practiced’ – as if he and the lizard set it up before he came home.)

I am not suggesting you file for D, or abandon your DB efforts, but to suggest that "DBing the heck out of him" may help fix some of his issues seems a bit, well, weak. I think he needs to address his issues, and professionally if at all possible. I think you can and SHOULD continue DBing, as it is something that seems to fit YOUR life well, but also accept that his situation may need more than that.

DBing won’t fix his issues with depressions or the desire for death. It MAY fix the issues with my weight, and my demeanor problems that made him fall out of love with me. It may enable him to fall back in love with me, which will ease his desire for death. (What will address his depression? I don’t know. I doubt it. I HOPE some day to get through to him about getting help.)

Please, take care of yourself and if I need to be corrected on this, please do so. It was hard for me to write this, but I mean only to help.

I’m sorry you found it difficult. I SO value your discussions – you are wise and experienced. (Sorry, you’re experienced, you know? But I’m sorry for us all here, struggling!) I am working this stuff out daily; things SEEM to be better – but how can I tell what’s real and what’s memorex? Only by living through it and looking back on it. By dissecting my feelings, and his words and actions, by DBing to the best of my ability, and – as I have said many times to him: playing for time. I want him to LIVE long enough to see me change, to see if I can become once again, the woman he loves.

What other goal SHOULD I have?