Positively new thread - how do you deal with this?

[lucyhelen]

So much of your story is similar in so many ways to mine. I noticed immediately, though, when my H took off his wedding ring and it felt like walking into a brick wall. He said it was "time" which I later realized meant he was interested in someone else. I have this strong feeling that your H wants to go to Germany without wearing it and is looking for a reason. But I'm usually wrong, so I'm sure I am this time too; in fact I hope I am. When does he go? I feel lousy for you knowing he is spending his birthday with OW. That hurts. Still, for most of the time she is half a world away.

The bad thing about that is he doesn't get to see her in all her moods so he can build her up in his mind to something and someone that she isn't. That's just fantasy; not reality. They never seem to get it.

I'm not sure if your initiating R talk is good or not. I certainly understand your wanting to because I am the same way. Let's just get it out on the table and then we can deal with it. I NEED TO KNOW. But he would tell me that I don't need to know. Used to drive me crazy! But looking at it from his point, I think he might see it as pressure from you, asking him to move back home. And from his answer, to me, it sounds like a well-I-am-not-ready-but-I-can't-tell-you-that-right-now answer. So he kind of put it off by saying sometimes he thinks about it. Still, you know him better than I do!

I hope you are doing well.

Lucy

[PositivelyListening]

H called me yesterday and left me a VM message - I am still "hon" and "sweetheart" and the message was all family matters: did I straighten out the COSTCO membership (I was sthe one who was supposed to pay, but he paid when he went on the same day I paid it, without checking with me) and how are the 2 D's doing with their jobs (both were supposed to hear back after final interviews)? My cell phone has been on the fritz, but that was my excuse as I actually wasn't in the mood to call back yesterday so waited 'til today. He seemed happy to hear from me, seemed a little surprised (miffed?) that I wasn't planning on "straightening out" the COSTCO thing. I am always such a fixer, always handling these things for us. So I suppose it's a 180. I told him (nicely sweetly) that I didn't really care to inquire about it, and I didn't really care if they gave us credit 'til next year or whatever, I was sure it would show up at some point. Pretty casual about it. I am sure he was surprised by that, I am the one who usually watches the $$. So he said, OK who ever is there next time can fix it. And re: the D's, I told him no news yet on their jobs. I ended the convo pleasantly, but kinda quickly as I was at lunch with a friend. He seemed to want more conversation time than I offered, but I had a limited amount of time, a friend waiting and a dentist appt to get to right after.

I don't want to fall back into my "busy routine" with him not in my life, H could be just squeezed out. I can be unbelievably good at filling my time. I can already feel how easy it could be to have weeks and months go by, for the whole thing to just fade away. I am not sure what to do about that. I believe H could wake up seven years from now, and say "I wonder what ever happened to PL?" Most everyone else usesthis as part of the "Last Resort Technique" (GAL, etc.) However, I have been careful to continue to check in with my H and to keep some regular contact, mostly because I have seen him be an "out of sight, out of mind" kinda guy in most relationships in his life. If the other person contacts him, he loves it. But he rarely initiates contact with anyone (except OW right now of course). But I can feel myself just letting go. It feels like one of those dreams, where you are falling, falling, and the person you were standing next to is getting smaller and smaller in the distance. Don't get me wrong, I am cheery and sweet almost all of the time when I speak to H or see him, and I genuinely like him and actually feel deep love for him every time I see him. But being a primary LL Quality Time kinda gal, the less I see him, the harder it gets to generate something. And should I continue to try to initiate and generate? I notice I am still quite easy in being responsive. But I am not clear if I should keep trying to initiate anything anymore. DBing is hard work, a seemingly active thing. But am I supposed to keep doing things in H's direction, now?

So the H's birthday is coming. I need help on this one. He is spending his birthday with OW in Germany. Do I acknowledge his birthday, before, after, not at all? Card, present? I am struggling with this, because I have always made such a big deal of birthdays for my loved ones. If I ignore it, it almost feels vindictive it is so unlike me. But honestly, a card seems like such an obvious holding back, contrived, unlike me also. OK - maybe a modest gift of some sort, left in his shop for him to find when he returns? I feel silly asking you all this. It is just awkward. I'm sure I can figure it out. It's just that I would like to BE with H, that's the problem. I like to give him things that get him away from the "work work work" and have him relax and connect. He usually does not do that for himself much. But this year, OW's got it covered, it seems. That is his choice, to be with her. I sure would like a break (or a breakthrough) from the universe in that department. Just a little pin in H's fantasy balloon that would send a little help my way. I guess that would be MY birthday present.

H is all worked up about the world cup. Asked me if I knew the score of the game today. You have no idea how much I love soccer, and how little I want to talk about this with him right now. I do not want to allow this A to put a damper on soccer for me. But that is how it is feeling right now. H is going to the games with her. We talked about it last year when we were in Germany, about going back this year for the games, and now he is going on his own to see her. I can't even turn on the TV right now. If H & I watched one game together, it would help me, believe it or not. I'd have some memory of the games with him, not just thoughts of OW with him as it is right now. I know this is unproductive thinking, but I do not know how to turn it around right now. It's just a trigger. Right now, World cup = H's A. Watching them alone, or even with other friends isn't gonna fix that, unless the friends can really really really be silly, fun, and distracting. Maybe I should create that. Maybe that would help. Silly friends at my house watching soccer on a Saturday afternoon. I wonder if I can get them to drink some beer (they are all so healthy) OK, I think I will ask for help, tell my friends that I know that I need them for this. I can do this. I just can't let the A have this part of me.

**** H just called. I gave him D's old lap top, since his "real" computer is here and he wanted to access the internet etc. sometimes in his room. I guess his roomate is helping him connect, he needed the password. I gave him the laptop because he wanted it. But why does every step he takes to make himself comfortable over there feel so much like that falling falling feeling of him fading away?

I, who try always to be positive, am very tired on this front. My job is fine, my D's are as good as could be considering what has happened to our family, the weather is amazing, I took a two hour walk on the beach tonight and saw an amazing sunset, I have a beautiful home, a cute dog and cat, I am in school in a program I love, I have great friends, I've lost weight, have new clothes and even got my teeth whitened today, my God I could go on and on about "life is good." But I want my H and I want a healthy happy thriving M. Why does there have to be a "but" ... Will I ever learn patience?

I have decided to make the appointment for my third coaching call which I prepaid some time ago. It is time for a little more support. The last coaching call I had, I was really feeling like the sitch was turning around. Since then, it has not improved (perhaps gone the other way?) or at the very least it is quite stagnant. I understand that is to be expected as long as OW is alive and well in H's life. Poop. I need to find my glass half full thinking. I am having trouble with that. Perhaps a coaching call will help.

H will be gone June 21 - 26. The countdown, again. I remember last time, the anticipation was the worst. I am calmer this time. Anxious, but not quite as anxious. But sad. Looking for progress. Maybe I should re-read my thread. There must be some progress here, and I am forgetting to watch for the baby steps.

OK, here are some positive things from the past month:
H is telling me the truth more.
I am telling the truth in slightly larger doses, to H.
I have expressed some wants to H, and they have landed.
H has said "I am sorry that what I am doing is making you unhappy" and has also said several times "Don't worry, everything will be alright." I believe he is concerned about my well being in addition to being concerned about the D's.
We have gone on a few dates.
We have slept in hotels together.
H has attended family events (such as D's graduation).
I am healthy, exercising, eating right, reading alot, etc. and I am looking cute (and this is new - even getting friendly attention)
I have been to plays, movies, restaurants, and even bars to hear music

OK. Recipe for the week: Patience. Love. Understanding. Kindness. Compassion. More patience. All that. And if I need to cry a little, well, so be it.

[PositivelyListening]

Well, I am falling short in following my recipe. I am lacking patience. Lacking compassion. Still being kind, but it's an "act as if" for sure. Not feeling kind. I am now feeling quite P.O.'d. I have been H's yo-yo and it is no fun no more. The best I feel I can manage right now, is to do nothing further - to take no action so as to avoid damage or destruction. If I can just get through the next few days without doing anything unplanned or emotional towards H, during these few days until H goes to visit the OW, well that would be a small success I guess. Because it sure feels like I want to do something else. I am ready to do some damage. I am feeling really mean and spiteful and ready to hurt him back. And tell my H that he's going to hell in a hand basket, and that I quit. I promised myself that I wouldn't quit, no matter how dark it gets, no matter how bad it looks. I promised myself I could do this. Geez. I'm not sure anymore.

I am beginning to dislike my H a lot. But it turns on a dime. It is hard to respect and admire someone who is doing what he's doing. It also hurts, and it seems he goes out of his way to hurt me, to "put me in my place". OK, here's some compassion: H has historically not been good at expressing his wants and needs. Now that he is beginning to, I don't like the direction he's going or the things he says... How's that for no fun, poor guy. Maybe I'm just a selfish self-centered know-it-all. I've been pursuing, in little and then not so little ways. Got the slap back. You know, maybe my H and I will never see eye to eye, and I would not feel so bad right now if I was with someone who admired, respected and loved me, and wanted to be my H. Of course he did once. But he doesn't now. And as I am losing my patience, and feeling more frustrated, I am making it worse for me. Good he is going away. I hope he figures out what'll make him happy. Because, I need a break, to reevaaluate what I want too. Right now, I am just feeling like I want it to be over, some kind of direction clear, some kind of decision made. This stand I have taken has me feeling so alone.

I have been believing that my H is in MLC. That he will at some point "wake up". Meanwhile, he is pursuing OW with fervor and glee. He still wants to see me, though; hold my hand, call me "sweetheart" and "hon", wear the wedding ring. It's all too confusing for me. I think I make those things "mean" something. They do mean something to me. But who knows what they mean to him.

There are many cynical doubters in my life these days too. Even here on the boards, there are many doubters. Maybe it's just reality to them. But it's affecting me and my PMA is sinking. Things that have been ringing in my ears: "I don't think he's as smart as you are", "He's not worth it" "You need to protect yourself" "Just walk away, he's no good" "I could have seen this coming" "Change your locks and get new bank accounts" "He may not take marriage as seriously as you do" "He's unable to keep his commitments - look at X Y Z in his past" "His behavior is selfish and immature" "Are you ready to date again?" "Protect your children and yourself - give him his walking papers" "He can't ever be trusted" "He lied, that's it" "He's was married to his first wife for 5 1/2 years, and he's been married to you for 5 1/2 years. Maybe that's what he'll do over and over." "He's never coming back, he's just not telling you."

WTF. How do you all do it?

Last night H & I went to a movie and to dinner. After a fair amount of soul searching and centering during the week, I called H during the day to ask if he wanted to catch a movie. He had called me 3 x, so I did what a friend would do. Very casual, OK with me either way. He was excited, knew what he wanted to see (these are all new behaviors for him). Went to see Nacho Libre, and H said let's have dinner after. He treated to the film and dinner out of his business account (even though in the past we always used our joint account. He has been doing this lately, as he "got" that I like it when he pays the bill (even when it comes out of the joint account). I was fun to be with, cheery mostly and fun. He told me over dinner how happy he was that I had called and asked him out. But, the tide turned somewhere later in the dinner. Romantic spot, italian food, lovely lighting. Maybe it was too intimate. He started getting impatient for the food to arrive. Then, started avoiding eye contact - I mentioned his eyes were darting around like a rabbit... H wasn't pleased with the food, I could tell. He just became increasingly irritated in small ways. I had two glasses of wine with dinner, and I remained jovial and relaxed, but I also lost my inhibitions a bit and on our walk back to the car, I made an error. We were walking through a "paseo" in our town, where we have been many times before. We were holding hands, and walking close, he was chatting about some of our memories there, and I recalled outloud, "We kissed right there once", and he said "yes". And I said, "We could kiss there again" and he said "My heart's not with you." Followed by "I need to be honest, right?" Total show stopper. I wish I could say that I could DB through these things, and say something like, yes thank you for being honest with me, that's important and I really appreciate it. But I didn't. It hurts my feelings, and he is really good at stopping the action. On a dime, I am stopped. I got quiet. The laughter's gone. The evening I just want to end by then. I want to run away and never see him again. I just forget, you know? I think I am on a date - we've had dinner with little twinkle lights and a lovely stroll on a balmy summer night. And I look cute and sexy and he's holding my hand and we've had eye contact and reminiscences. And I forget the bomb, the push away is coming. How does he do that? I could never. I just get caught up in the moment and I want it all. Poop.

But did I stop there? No. When we got home, he came in to get his mail. I laid on the bed for a few minutes visiting with the cat, while he was in the office picking up mail. He peeked his head in and said "Thanks for a nice evening, bye" and I was still feeling all punky and weird. But I got up and walked him to the door, held his face in my hands for a moment and looked him lovingly in the eyes, and then said, "I know you have forgotten who I am right now, but I know who I am." I don't remember exactly what else was said but it was quick on his part whatever it was and he was outta there. If he felt like running before, I'm sure he felt like it even more after. I made it about me.

So I was pushy and pursuing twice. Then I wrote him a long letter this morning (which I did not send, BTW) just telling him everything. Asking him to end the A with OW, and to keep his word and to be in integrity, even though he might feel like he doesn't want to. Because you can't truly be happy if it's at the expense of others. Blah, blah. Don't worry, I won't be sending it (today anyway). Shoot, he's already deaf to me now.

Besides writing the letter, here's all of the things I've fantasized about doing in the past 24 hours:

Telling him to go to hell.
Calling a lawyer to initiate a D, and take him to the financial cleaners
Packing up all his stuff, and putting it in his shop.
Snooping (computer, shop, truck, whatever)
Calling the OW
Writing to the OW
Telling his brother, SIL, mom what a unfaithful H he has been and giving them names and phone numbers
Buying him some books on how to end the affair, MLC, etc.
Insisting on MC
Screaming
Dating
Having sex with strangers
Telling him everything I think about everything he has done, in great detail - ie, making him WRONG with lots of evidence

There's probably a few other thoughts that have come up in addition, but you get the gist. So? What have I been doing? I went to a student meeting. Went to the bookstore, decided to try some novels instead of M and school books, to see if it would help (maybe I need distraction ) Taped the world cup games today, so I could watch them (with or without a "party" of buddies). Took a walk downtown - beautiful day.

Next things I will do: I will take a walk on the beach with the dog. Do my reading and homework. Watch the games. Call to make the DB coaching appt. Pay my bills.

I am sorry I am not happy. I don't like it. I am responsible, but I can't quite figure out what to do. Seeing H makes my unhappy a fair amount of the time lately, as it's a 50-50 proposition with H at best anytime I see him - never know which H I will get, or if the same one will stay through the whole visit. Sometimes I feel like I have sold my soul. I want it back. But I won't be happy with a D either. I have said I am not a victim, that I am choosing this. But it feels WRONG. And I do feel stuck.

Ok, y'all. Insights into H's world and feelings might help with my compassion. Most of the books I have read support my point of view.

Also, if I just pace this to how it suits me, is that enough? Is there anything I could be doing, other than detach detach? Sounds silly to say that, but there it is.

[lucyhelen]

Yes, pace this to how it suits YOU. I am feeling your pain and I mean that sincerely because I've been there. I got soooo tired of having to be upbeat and cheerful when I wanted to scream at him and take OW and mash her face into the dirt...sigh. It's so frustrating to have to swallow all that and pretend you're feeling just fine. I didn't have this board or the books but I did have a counselor who was a great help to me.

Sometimes even when you want honesty you don't want honesty. I can well imagine hearing your H say his heart isn't with you would hurt alot. But, his heart may not be with you NOW, the thing is, is it gone forever or only temporarily? The frustrating thing about it is that only time will give you the answer and who wants to wait??

I was in the same sort of situation where I just got tired and weary and started to even feel like I hated him because no matter what I did or didn't do or said or didn't say etc. etc. nothing seemed to work. He wanted to be with OW. So I talked to my counselor and she said, Give yourself a break.

That's exactly what I did. I went dark. I stopped calling him and I withdrew from him. I didn't want to because my H is like yours--out of sight, out of mind. But my counselor said no. That may be with others but not with his wife. He's NOT going to forget you and you're not going to fade away.

Well, for me it worked. It was the hardest thing I ever did but I went dark. I'm not a person to do that and I fought it every day. But I stuck with it. My C told me to stop making myself available and loving and accessible. She said why would he make any effort towards me when I'm doing it all and he doesn't have to?

I had to wait almost a year while he was with OW and it nearly killed me. But it worked. He told me he was in love with her and no longer in love with me. That was at the beginning of their affair. But they lasted about a year and we have been together 10 years. I knew deep down I was the one he really loved.

Now whether you should do that or if it would work for you or if you even want it to, I have no idea. But I think you are making yourself too available to him. He knows he has you right there whenever he has any kind of need to get in touch. So don't be available.

And don't be so hard on yourself. Your feelings are normal and I went through every one of them. You can NOT be upbeat and positive all the time. I couldn't do it MOST of the time. And I didn't try. I tried around HIM but when I was alone I let myself be sad because in the long run it helped me rather than fighting it all the time. Everyone is different; you need to find who you are and what you know works for you and do it. Don't worry about what anyone else is doing.

Cry every day while he's gone if you want to. So what? He'll never know! Do what YOU have to do to make it through to the other side.

Lucy

[RBinBR]

Is there anything I could be doing, other than detach detach? Sounds silly to say that, but there it is.

But that's the whole ballgame, isn't it? Detachment is what enables you to keep a PMA, and it's what keeps you from saying things you wish you hadn't.

I don't know if there is a magic key to detachment, PL. The biggest key to mine has been my relationship with Christ. By enjoying his love, I'm able to focus on what he has done for me and trust his promise to bless me. Through fellowship with other believers, I'm able to develop frienships and take in the comfort of knowing that others care about my difficulties and are praying for me.

The other big key for me has been my new career. I'm excited about helping kids learn and I'm now very driven to be a good teacher, so that's really occupying my mind.

I guess the key to detachment is finding satisfaction and fulfillment in something other than your M. Good luck.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi lucyhelen, Thank you so much for writing to me. Your post gave me a lot of hope. I didn't realize that you had been through this and have also come out the other side with your M. Thank you for that. I was just saying to a friend tonight that I really needed to hear from someone who had been where I was, and the M survived and came out the other side. It really helped to hear that. I do think my H loves me. I do think it is in there somewhere. He's just not present to it right now, when all he thinks about is OW.

I have considered "going dark" a few times. My detachment process would be a lot easier I believe. Whenever I have gone away on a trip, I have really gotten calm and centered without H around and lots of other things to do and see, and other people to be with. However, I have not figured out logistically how I could make it work to go dark on home turf. H has a lot of work he intends to do on our house, and his office is still here. So right now, he has open access to our home, even though he is not staying here. I could change that, of course, but I will probably lose out on some home repairs and maybe even the financial contributions. Of course, he hasn't done much work lately anyway, so... maybe it wouldn't be any different, or maybe it would even get better if he had to make more of an effort. H hates "rules" though (especially if I have been the one to create structure), so I have been resistant to making any "rules" at this point. But my question is, can going dark mean being less available but not completely unavailable? How do you handle money, business stuff, etc? If I decided that was the most helpful route to go until the A was over, do I say so to H (like the explanation in Michele's After the Last Resort Technique, or Harley's Plan B - write a letter)? That's what I feel like could be needed - but is that just me thinking I need to communicate instead of act? I just feel like H needs to understand any change or choice I am making to pull away in the context of what my intentions are about the M, rather than I just dissappear and have him make it up that I don't care anymore. Or is that all "going dark" is, just dissappearing? Not to sound dense, but your specifics on the "how to's" of going dark would be helpful (how you managed it yourself, for example), in case that's what I need to do. I just want to make sure I can follow through and be consistent rather than being confusing and inconsistent. I don't want to say something and then behave differently. I do think it is entirely possible H sees me as easily available. I am super reliable to him. He thinks he knows me inside out, and that nothing about me will ever change. I think he thinks of me a lot more like a "mother" than a lover. I would surely like to stir up that thinking.

Just knowing that what you did worked after a year or so, gives me a lot of hope and strength. Also, thanks so much for the support to just allow my feelings. I am a pretty good crier (just not around H anymore). Since my D has been here though, it has gotten a little harder, as the whole sitch is upsetting for her, and I don't want to add any more upset to that for her, and my place is small. But she's gone right now 'til Tuesday, so I'll see what I can exorcise! It really made me feel better that you had all of those "bad" feelings too, like smashing OW's face in the dirt . I don't like it that I think that way sometimes, I'd rather be saintly and all forgiving... but alas I am quite human, but doing a pretty good job of being human and it is nice to know there are other supportive and similar humans out there letting me know I am not alone. Thank you for that

[PositivelyListening]

Hi RB, Yes detaching seems to be the whole ballgame and then some. I am super proud of you in this regard, as a matter of fact. I remember when you got really mad and just let it rip with your W. I was worried it was harsh, but it was authentic at the moment, you were just done with the way it had been. And I recall your W made several moves in your direction after that happened. That's what I feel like is bubbling up, a "breakthrough" in detachment for me. I just want to make sure I manage it/communicate it responsibly and that I am consistent. That is my biggest concern, that I will say something and then not follow through. I was really good at boundaries with my girls raising them. I was loving, but very firm. It really worked, there is a lot of respect there bewteen us. I don't want to lose H's respect (or my own self respect) so I need to make sure the steps I take are genuine and that I can be consistent (rather than just reacting to an emotional passing thought that will change one day to the next).

This is the hardest thing for me, what you said:

I guess the key to detachment is finding satisfaction and fulfillment in something other than your M.

I feel like I have a fulfilling life, when I met H my life was full and still is. I can keep tweaking and adding. But truth is right now, I see couples on the beach or on TV and I am sad. I saw an old couple holding hands walking on the beach tonight. So sweet. I want that in my future. I don't want to give up that picture for my future, it is part of what gives me hope. So how do you detach, and still hold the picture of the future in your heart. I'll bet you a million bucks, right when I get the detachment thing down and I am happy and truly OK without him like I was before I met him, I'll bet that is when H will want to come back. That would be life at it's finest

[lucyhelen]

Well, going dark doesn't mean you can never see or speak to your H again. Obviously when you are married there are times and circumstances when you have to see or speak to each other. I suppose everyone's "going dark" would be a bit different.

In my case, I stopped calling him, period. I used to wait until I couldn't stand it another minute then call with some flimsy excuse or I would say I was just saying hello, how are you doing. I stopped doing that. After a couple of months of that he started calling me to say hello. I was dumbfounded the first time that happened!

Sometimes we did have to contact each other for financial reasons but whenever possible I let HIM do the contacting and then I was very impersonal. Not cold and rude, but just very nonchalant. Don't think THAT was easy! If I had to call him and I ONLY did it for financial reasons, I was still impersonal.

My C said to me one day "Have you noticed that since you stopped being so available that he is seeking you out and reaching out to you more and more?" Well I thought about that and it was true! One day many months later I said to him, "Why do you call? Why don't you just say goodbye?" and he was silent a minute and he said, "You know, I asked my C why I didn't do that and she said, Because you're afraid if you say goodbye, she really will disappear."" And I said, "would you even care?" and he said, "yes." Just that simple yes was enough. He has told me since we have been back together that he could not stand the thought of me disappearing. But he did not want to tell me at the time. He told me alot of things later that he said he was afraid to tell me at the time for one reason or another. Your H is probably the same.

You don't have to tell him you are going dark. Just ease off on calling him. If he calls and says he is coming round to work in the office say fine. Then go somewhere while he is there so he doesn't even get to see you. Now listen, PL, this stuff is NOT easy, as I'm sure you know!! I had an awful time doing this because I wanted to see/talk to him any chance I got. But I figured I had to make it worse before it could get better. But don't TELL him what you're going to do; just quietly and calmly do it. If he says anything, tell him the truth. Tell him it hurts too much to be with him knowing he is thinking about someone else and you need to take a break from it. There's nothing wrong with that and he can't argue with it. He's doing what he wants; you have the same right.

I hope I have made it a bit clearer. Do you have a C? You might greatly benefit from one. Mine saved my sanity because for a few months I was close to going off the deep end. Jealousy eats at you until you feel so sick and that crummy awful feeling you have NEVER goes away. I hate it! I hope the rest of the month goes okay for you. I'll be thinking about you!

Lucy

[PositivelyListening]

Hi lucyhelen, Thanks so much, that was really helpful. Currently my H is calling about 3 x more per week than I am calling him, but I still think I am initiating the "fun" and "check in" calls while he is more about business and family updates. I think I will stop all "fun" invites and "check-ins" which were attempts to draw him out, and stick strictly to initiating only essential business, and see what happens. They did seem to "work" in the sense that H would warm up quite a bit in the course of the call, and usually tell me he was happy that I called, etc. by the end. So that has made it hard for me to guage. It seems like every time I call, he is reminded that he does actually like me after all - just a little tickle in that arena. Knowing that the majority of his A is on the phone also, has been a confusing element. I thought since I had the advantage of phone coupled with more available face-to-face, that that would be good for my sitch. However, recently I think it has caused him to miss OW more, and take me for granted. When we were taking all those trips together in the spring (fixing up the house, D's graduation, etc.) and staying in hotels together, it was better than now. However, H invites me to do fun things sometimes too. I guess this is the "say no at least 50% of the time" part - and I haven't been doing that, for sure. I have been mostly available to him. And emotionally, I am so available. I have always been a pretty exuberant and enthusiastic person, so being "mildly" anything will be a challenge! Nonchalant would definitely be a new behavior that no one in my life has ever seen in me A few times I have not been around when he said he would come by the house, but that has not phased him at all. Even my D says he runs in and out in less than 2 minutes, which she finds very upsetting. I am sure it is confronting for him to be here right now, especially with D currently here. She's uncomfortable, as home does not feel the same and it is hard for her too. So I am sure he runs in and out rather than feel it. So it seems like I just need to be more committed to backing off than I have been, and see what happens. That will be new. I am already planning NOT to see him again before he leaves on his trip on Wednesday. He is leaving me his truck to use while he is gone. I already have a key though, and know where it will be parked, so no need to exchange anything. Because he wouldn't be driving himself to the airport, I did offer to pick him up at the airbus stop upon his return. But he will have to communicate his itinerary and make the request to confirm with me or I will not pursue following through. It will be interesting to see what happens there.

This is the part of what you said that really feels right on for me:

I figured I had to make it worse before it could get better. But don't TELL him what you're going to do; just quietly and calmly do it. If he says anything, tell him the truth. Tell him it hurts too much to be with him knowing he is thinking about someone else and you need to take a break from it. There's nothing wrong with that and he can't argue with it. He's doing what he wants; you have the same right.

It does hurt too much to be around him each time - that has been the problem. I go out with him, get all relaxed and happy, and then he reminds me that he is not "with me". It does hurt, and I am happier when it is not rubbed in my face every time I see him. H's honesty is good, but it will be better/easier when it is more insightful and he shares that with me. Right now it is just gooey addictive "in love" froth on his face, and I would just as soon skip that part a little more. I do believe it will pass. Seeing him less will allow the time to pass more productively for me.

I guess that means I will probably be dark re: his birthday (which he will be gone for anyway). I do have a gift and a card for him, I think I will just set it aside for someday in the future when we are "together") And I am hosting our annual 4th of July party as usual, which now I will not discuss with H. I travel for almost 3 weeks in July for work too. H has been invited to come every year, and still claims he is "considering it" for this year. I will not be bringing that up. And anniversary also in July (first one in six years when I will be home for it - and H knows this too). It should be an interesting month.

I do have a C. H & I were in MC but he quit in February. I have continued. She is supportive, but not directive. Sometimes I feel frustrated there too, I'd love her to wave the magic wand - it is only because I want things to go faster She is understanding of my DBing efforts, and does believe (as DB coach Chuck also believes) that I am my H's best life choice, and he is bound to realize that at some point. So patience is my mantra...

[PositivelyListening]

BTW, lucyhelen, you probably ARE right about the wedding ring, even though I didn't want you to be... Last time I saw H (on Friday) he told me the jeweler won't have his ring repaired until the 22nd, and he leaves for Germany to see OW on the 21st. So, I think he does want to go there without it on. That's just too convenient. He was quite sheepish when he told me that.

I was reading on the MLC board today too. How sometimes the WAS lies to the OW as well as to the LBS. I hadn't thought of that. It is entirely likely that she does not have all of the information about his sitch either. Duh. Up until now, I have not liked her much, and I still don't like her from what I can see, especially her poor choices and her "poor me", needy act with H - everybody is mean to her, her H and kids etc. But I had a moment of compassion. She probably thinks H is going to solve all her problems, has great assets she will benefit from, thinks now that H & I are separated that I am not an important factor ha. And now he will go to see her without his wedding ring. And you never know, maybe SHE will feel pressured, that's possible too. Just some rambling thoughts to remind myself that there is a lot I don't know about how this is going to turn out. It makes it more like an interesting movie when I'm not feeling overly attached.

Question: is it ever helpful to let family members who are in the dark know about what is going on? I think they would be supportive to our M and not supportive of H's behavior and ongoing activity with OW. Does that make pressure for H and make things worse? Or can it be helpful as part of getting to the bottom? It seems like it could be interpreted as pressure or make H mad, but it also seems like it would accelerate some movement forward. Thoughts? Up until now, I have been very careful with his family especially, and they think I kicked H out and don't know why. I miss my SIL knowing what is happening especially. She is very loving and family oriented.