Positively new thread - how do you deal with this?

[PositivelyListening]

Hi lucyhelen, Thanks for writing to me. It is my work right now to find the balance between love and doormat, naieve and smart, setting boundaries instead of creating walls. Thanks for providing your perspective. I sometimes think H is "cake eating" too. But I also sometimes think H is really confused, doesn't want to lose me, but is so addicted to OW that he can't imagine cutting her out. He can not see me straight - not as anything other than business right now. Just like the R between his dad and mom - kind, caring, business R, no intimacy, separate bedrooms, etc. I have compassion for H being in MLC and somehow working through old childhood wounds and fears and needs not being met. I hurt him, and he was damaged by that too, even though I didn't know it, it still happened. I didn't know it then, but I know it now. So finding that balance where I am caring, loving and kind, but also maintaining healthy boundaries for myself and holding a vision of a healthy M which calls me to new heights because I will not settle for less than committed love and partnership.

I suspect that this house thing will come up again. I have decided for now to do nothing, continue to observe, etc. If H brings it up again, I have decided that my answer will be similar to what I have said before: I am not in a rush, that I would like to get another house but it does not have to happen right away or at all, that for me I want to move forward with my goals in a healthy context, if we work together married then in the context of a healthy marriage, knowing that we are building something for our future together. And that he is free to leave too if that's what he wants and I will continue to move forward on my goals and future with a different plan and vision. That I would rather be with him, but I can accept whatever he chooses to do to make himself happy. Something like that.

I have been thinking about the comments from both my D and my birth mother, who both told me that they would probably do the house thing regardless. I think I am an idealist, and they are both more practical than I. They come from a place where more money in the pocket would be better since everything else is not as certain, and money in the pocket is always tempting to me. Yet I feel this is a "scarcity" conversation if you know what I mean. A little more cynical and resigned than the way I choose to live when I am my best self. I do not want to make a decision out of fear or lack. I actually want to make a decision coming from love. And tough love is OK too. Not trying to be difficult, but being committed to a bigger picture where integrity is present in all actions. If I sacrifice my values and use H to increase $$ knowing what was most important to me was love and true partnership instead, then I will feel like I sold myself out if that's all we end up with. Also, it's just too much emotional work for me to be around H and be rejected, critisized or marginalized. So the self-preserving part is this: H either finds his heart again to appreciate who I am and what I offer, and he chooses that - or I stay this nice comfortable manageable space apart until something changes to make it more obvious what we will do next.

Of all the things you wrote, this was the hardest:

Too bad he doesn't notice how much the OW has already done for him. Turned his life upside down, broke up his marriage and destroyed his relationship with his son. Gee, she's great! What else will she do before he wakes up and smells the coffee? Frustrating, isn't it? I know.

I wish you luck! And I wish you peace.

Because I just want to tell him the obvious, and have him get it. How can he not see that already? What a frickin' mess, everybody struggling in their wake. So hard to find peace in that. So hard to trust he will figure it out in any reasonable amount of time since he's missed it so far. That is where trust and patience come in. And the importance for me in not focusing on OW. I have no peace at all when I think about her. So I do my best to fill my life with other things, that give me strength, juice, life! I refuse to let the OW and the A rob me of my life too. It is just a waste of time, bottomless pit of misery and I don't want to go there. I am willing to offer H a hand out of the pit, but he has to take my hand to come out of there, not to pull me in. Otherwise I let go completely. I am hanging in there. Today was a good day.

[PositivelyListening]

Last night H called again. Two nights in a row Guess he is making some efforts here. I was fortunately on the phone, and it went to voice mail. I had told him I might not be home... perhaps he was checking? Obviously didn't find out as it could have been D on the phone and me out and about... But he left a V.M. message which was a new behavior, as for the last several months he has been calling and hanging up with no message both at home and on the cell (where I could see that he'd called). His message was VERY cheery, he was talking to the roommate's GF who has just moved in, had some ideas for a check writing service for me ($10 per month and the service pays all my bills for me and sends me a report for the tax guy too, all paperless bill paying - what a deal). He was all excited in the VM, because he remembered how the bill paying used to stress me out every month (it had been my job to manage all the household bills and rentals, as his was to manage all of his business accounts and invoices). And it does stress me out sometimes (mostly in the past I have worried about not having enough $$ to pay for everything, a last remnant from when I was on welfare for a short time when D was a baby and I feared I would lose D and end up homeless). I found it unbelievably charming that he was thinking of me in his "Acts of Service" kinda way, trying to make my life easier. Nice. I decided not to call back right away last night, though but not to leave him unacknowledged for too long... So called today on my way to pick up a friend for lunch (keepin it short), thanked him for the message, appreciated him for thinking about me, told him I would look into it, that I really appreciated it (His primary LL is Words of Affirmation). Then, invited him for BBQ/dinner Saturday afternoon/evening (D will be out of town), he told me that he "had to work, could he leave it open?" I said, "oh". And he said, "About the time I will arrive, I mean". And I said, "OK. Just call me that morning and let me know what time you'll be able to come. I have to go now, I'm just picking up a friend for lunch." (ending the convo on my time ) And he said, "Can we go to a movie after dinner on Saturday too? We haven't been to a movie in a long time!" And I said "Sure, I'll review the paper for film showings, that would be fun. Gotta go now"

I think I did good. Seems like perhaps he is missing me a little. I am getting a lot of sweetie, hon and darling when he talks to me (although that has never gone away for long, but I still really like it). he seems like he is trying to stay engaged. I am pleased with myself. Much stronger and better today. Reminds me how important it is for me to take a break if I am "off" until I can find my powerful center again.

I also managed myself well with D last night. She was having a melt-down related to being home with mom, even for a month, at age 25 with a masters degree and no job. For heavens sake, school just ended last week, and she is moving from being a nanny 50 hours per week plus full time graduate school load to no obligations other than job & house hunting. But oh my God, melt down. She is a driven gal. But I was good, I listened, was sympathetic and encouraging, and then cut it off because I had plans to walk on the beach with a friend and I wasn't gonna miss it as it was important to me. She stopped the intense emotionality, rested while I was gone, thanked me when I returned and we had dinner. At which point she was able to receive the feedback she wanted from me regarding her resume and cover letter, and life goes on.

Healthy boundaries are very important things to have. I have not always had them. And each new challenge has me reevaluate where I am at with that issue. Right now, feeling healthier.

[PositivelyListening]

Went shopping this morning to buy ingredients for dinner w/ H tonight. Salmon for the grill, fresh blueberries for dessert, etc. Fish is marinating, salad made, patio cleared, beautiful hot day. H just called, "too tired" to come for dinner. Wanted to know if I was "sad". Sad is not the word I would use. I am SOOOOO stupid to set myself up like this. H is not reliable to me. I should know better. Then after my lonngggg pause (I was speechless), H wanted to know if I had a chance to look over the film listings for a film I wanted to go to. I said, "you still want to go to a film?" and he said, "I was just asking if you saw one you wanted to go to". So I said, I have the film listings here, there are a few good ones, but right now I am getting the salmon ready to put on the grill." And he said, "OK, should I call you to talk tomorrow then?" and I said, "honey, if you want to talk why don't you just say what you want to say now?" and he said "I'm tired now" so I said, in a rather unpleasant pissy tone (I was completely exasperated), "OK then you call me when you want to call me, when the time is right for you. Goodbye." and I hung up.

And I am so mad I could scream. He is an inconsiderate self-centered boor, and I am so stupid to care. There are 1000 men out there who would love to eat a fantastic dinner and have some wine on the patio with me tonight. And my H treats me like this. What a jerk. I won't eat the whole salmon, but I may drink the whole bottle of wine by myself. I have no one to tell but all of you. I feel like a complete idiot, I set myself up. What a frickin jerk. Doesn't he still need to eat? Isn't there a bed and a hammock here in our house? Why did he ask about the movie after he bailed on the dinner? Is that guilt, or some kind of booby prize because he "somehow" figured out he'd made a tactical error? Oh, no, I get it, he didn't really want to have dinner in the first place, he only wanted a movie companion, and it's all about him, always. I forgot. Everything is all about him. If I saw him right now I would tell him to go f*** himself. I am so so so mad. Oh God, 5 months of DBing and I don't give a s*** about any of it. Well if his goal was to see the old me, the one who got mad, here she is! And he actually didn't see much of her. Ha ha ha. But there definitely wasn't a pleasant demeaanor. Not my proudest moment in the last 5 months, but right now I truly truly do not care.

Ok, I am going to finish what I have started - a salmon marinated in white wine and basil, with lovely rice, a beautiful salad with on the vine strawberry tomatoes and seedless cucumber. I will drink wine and enjoy the sunset and the ocean breeze on this very hot day. And he can rot in his bed in front of the TV in his little rented room.

I am not sure if I want to do this any more. He has no idea what a jerk he is. Right now, I want to go away, and not see him again unless the H I love and remember comes back. This one is insane and mean and selfish and inconsiderate and rude. And best of all, he's only that way with me. Screw him with a hot poker.

Sorry, y'all. I guess I just can't be nice and calm and understanding any more. Whatever H is afraid of, he is doing a good job in bringing out the worst side of me today. I thought I could do this. But why why why would I put up with that? I am so tired, I deserve better. And if the wine makes me cry, well fine. I'm alone here 'til Monday at least, I can do whatever I want.

[jayhawk75]

Positively,

I have never posted on your thread before, but just read what happened today. I am so sorry your H is being such a JERK. You are right-they are only thinking about themselves unfortunately.

I hope you can salvage your evening, enjoy your salmon and wine, and remember that wasn't your H that called...it was the nasty alien in him!

HUGS!!!

Jayhawk

[doug01]

I'll catch up on your thead as well. For now, just remember alcohol is a depressant. It's not going to help drinking the whole bottle, but a couple of glasses should go great with the salmon.

Isn't it the hardest thing when you make special plans. Have an image in your mind how the evening will play out, than H does something this! Expectations are a MF.

You go right ahead and vent. Just don't make any calls after drinking.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi JayHawk & Doug, I am so glad you were there. I was just feeling like I was having a hard time controlling myself, and so wanted to call H and tell him what I really think of him right now, that I don't want to talk to him or see him anymore, etc. etc. Having a pretty decent cry fest here. It's amazing what a little "I understand" can do. I will not over do it with the wine or the reactivity. I am pretty good company, even for myself. You guys are great. Thank you for being there. If I get weird uncontrollable urges again, I will check back here before proceeding

[RBinBR]

PL, I could also tell you what a jerk your H is, but you already know that. What's really important to realize right now is that your frustration mainly stems from your own expectations.

Of course, anyone would be upset to prepare a fine dinner for nothing, but the main reason you are upset is that you thought H was warming up to you, and H mentioned seeing the movie ... and you built tonight up in your head into something that it wasn't. Your H's rollercoaster behavior is normal for a WAS, and you know this. You need to calm down and realize that you let your detachment slip and you'll have to build it up again.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi RB, my friend. I am not sure at this moment that I ever had detachment. I think I am a complete fraud. I wanted H to come home and to love me again, and I think I have been very attached to that outcome. I am a half a bottle of wine later tonight, and the sunset was very beautiful, God's wonderland never lets me down. But truth is, the failure of my marriage is the biggest disappointment of my life and I can hardly bear it. I know I have no control over H's behavior. But I have always kept my promises, and if I mess up, I have tried to learn from my mistakes and I always do my best to keep my word. Yet somehow I was too imperfect for marriage to the one man I wanted to be with. I'm almost 50 years old now, and he's the only one I was willing to give it all for. I know I have had my part in it all here, but I wanted another chance to get it right. I didn't see this coming. I was so blindsided, and I am so sad. I do feel like a victim, I want it to be different, I want my H to keep his promises to me. You are right, I am attached. I wanted a happy ending so much and I can hardly bear the reality of how this looks. If someone could tell me it was going to get better and I would still have my marriage, I could stand it. You see I know how to do "alone" well. Been there, done that. I wanted to do the rest of my life with him. That was my dream, the one thing that mattered to me. And I messed up enough that it's gone this way. I know it was not all me, but it was enough me that this is the outcome.

Guess they were right about the depressant part. I have been sobbing all the way through this post. I keep thinking H is going to show up tonight and make it all OK but it ain't gonna happen.

I am going to go dark. I am no good at this. I've done all I can, it hurts too much, he is not there.

[RBinBR]

PL, I hope you're sound asleep right now and not reading this, but if you are, then go to bed and don't make any R decisions under the influence.

Seriously, though, going dark for a couple weeks might be the ticket for you to gain some detachment. It really worked wonders for me to completely focus on me and know that I didn't even need to think about my W, because I wasn't going to talk to her.

Take care, and I hope you are going to church in the morning, as that will help you regain a PMA.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi RB & all,

It is 5 am and thought you'd all like to know that I had the soundest sleep I've had in a while and woke up (believe it or not) feeling fine but also sorry for H. The wine must have been really good because I have absolutely no headache, and usually I don't drink more than a glass or so with a meal (and then not very often), and this time I did have substantially more than that. It was a Voignier, and the vintner was Honeymoon which set the mood for me I guess. The evening was so lovely, the sunset and then the stars. And the night was hot, really hot, with winds off the desert blowing towards the ocean - it was probably 20 degrees hotter than usual. So I slept with all the screen doors and windows open and now here comes the sunrise with the promise of another day.

I was really hurting last night, but I guess I needed a really good cry. There is no way that this is normal H. I don't know why I continually have to remind myself of this. I do not want to accept this as reality. I know he is working a lot, burying himself in work even. But he is missing life completely right now. When I met my H, he worked a lot too. But he still liked to go hiking, camping, out in the evenings with friends. Now, he can't drag himself to our home because he has a flop house near his shop where he can text message or call his OW and watch TV and sleep and that's all he seems to want. It looks like MLC and depression to me. And I don't know if there is any way to help him. I feel like I've approached him in a lot of ways, but he seems to be tenaciously clinging to this.

It is interesting though, I woke up this morning and realized how great my life is, how much I have to be grateful for, and although I was P.O'd last night at H, this morning I am quite sure that he needs my compassion most. Whether we are having contact or not.

I have not decided what I will do next, other than go to church this morning, and study today. And spend some time outside. I am clear than my focus on H and the R isn't going to move me forward right now. It's not helping, there is just nothing I can do. I even probably need to spend less time on here although I have no plans to cut that off. I just think I need to read books that are not about affairs and marriage right now and let it all go. We'll see what happens, not even sure if I know how to do this. My friends and family consider loyalty one of my stonger attributes. Once I commit, I commit. So I guess this has been layers of the onion, peeling away the vestiges of everything we built together, I have been as loyal to my dream as I have been to our M and H. I liked being a couple. And I liked being coupled with my H. There are very few things in life I valued more. I wish I could tell him, and have him get it. But my H is not here any more.