Sparkless What he does not realise is that every time I see a patched hole in the wall or a broken object it is a reminder of his anger. I see your point and agree. His "menspeak" might be telling him, "gee, I fixed the hole, so what are you upset about?
I don't know what to advise about SSM or PM at this stage. My favorite was "The Divorce Remedy" I think that might do him some good.
I have Michelle's Keeping Love Alive® CD SPECIAL and there are other DVD videos. Some say for people that don't read much, the CD's and DVD's work better.
When I said I would switch with BB for a month to let her experience how I felt during sex I left out the other things like how much good sex also builds EC and trust in the R. I am more than just getting off and having hot sex, which has not happened in a long time.
Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme Yes, that is the project. Very interesting read about how it was built. I watch most of the "History Channel TV about dams, reservoirs, hydro power projects, canals, railroads, mines, major roads and bridges, etc, built thought the world.
Being Mother and Father is a temporary thing. In less then 10 years my kids will all be out of the house. I don't mean to dimish the importance of children, but they will occupy only a small portion of my life when compared to living with my wife 24/7 for next 30-40 years. Obviously the spousal relationship MUST be far more important.
As for what could be, why do you believe that a person could be happy in a relationship where they can never feel desired? If that was possible, then I would truly be happy right now.
Here is a message I originally posted on another board explaining why some men grope their wives at "inappropriate" times. Of course, un-consented touching is wrong and he should stop if it bothers you. But this might help explain what motivated him to do it in the first place.
What follows is going to be an over broad generalization. And stereotypes men. Yes, I understand that not all men are like this. Or think this way. And I am going overboard to highlight the point. So even those men who do think this way some of the time may not think this way all the time or most of the time or as crudely and bluntly as I explain it here.
That disclaimer aside. I think that touching, for males, it is often about possession / permission. That is, we want to touch lovely ladies. As adolescents, we are denied the ability to touch most or all of them. Being allowed to touch a female body is a special occasion. It is something we desperately want to do most or all of the time. But we are not granted permission very often.
When we get married, a big part of what we are looking for is PERMISSION to touch our wife's body. That is part of the trade. Not every man marries for this. But I think a lot of men feel (deep down and they might not even be conscious of it) that one benefit of marriage is that you get to touch your wife's body whenever you want to. Not just sexually. But in a more playful "hey, I get to touch your boob and your butt. This is great!" kind of way. That is part of what makes it worth giving up the right to pursue any other woman. You think to yourself, I may never get to touch anyone else, but at least I get to touch this one wherever and whenever I want.
A woman's body is "forbidden fruit" to most men most of the time. There is a huge ego rush from the idea that she will let you touch her. Even non-sexually. I don't think women with "groping" husbands should overlook this motivation. It is totally different than the sexual side of the relationship. So "why are you grabbing my butt, we had sex this morning?" is off target. He isn't groping your butt because he is horny. He is groping your butt to prove that he can.
To address this, you need to think about alternatives, not prohibition. Show him how you do like to be touched, don't merely complain about how you don't. Ask to be touched when you are open to being touched, don't just say "no" when he wants to. Tell him what times you are most likely to be in the mood to be touched, so he can get some positive feedback if he initiates touching at an appropriate place and time.
I also agree with w8ing that this may be a misguided request for attention. Last night at dinner, S11 complained that one of his classmates constantly interrupted the daily recess kickball game by walking across the field, preventing the pitcher from rolling the ball toward home plate. That boy is not a good athlete, so he refuses to play with the other boys even when they invite him. Mrs. Hold and I explained that sometimes people do inappropriate behavior to get attention, because to them even negative attention is better than being ignored. I can easily see a guy groping his wife to get attention if he feels that otherwise she is going to focus on her "to do" list and ignore him until it is late and she is tired.
This sounds like a problem that can be overcome through patient communication. Good luck.
i would just like to say this post is so theraputic for me. i cried when i read michelle's first chapter, and have since shared it with my fiance and now we are on the road to recovery - even though it seems like it's going to take some time. and things go up and down... but they are on an up now. we have made some goals and seem to both want the same thing. but her LD amazes me. and this post in particular is so unbelievably relevant i had to reply as my first post here. let me first say i identify with CeMar like crazy. i am 28 and my fiance is 33 and right after we started dating things went downhill. i would have broken up with her but i was so in love i wanted to give it a shot. i didn't want to propose after i became aware of her LD. but i did eventually, because i truly believed she loves me and we can work this out. since we've been engaged, things have gotten worse. down to once a month, and, at that, less than 5 minutes and very, very basic. the 'off limits' and 'pressure' issues describe us to a tee. but we have been working together and reading SSM together and it seems like we have a good plan to be intimate once a week. at her discretion. if this doesn't happen, i won't know what to do. i also don't know what to do if her 'gifting' remains her giving me a HJ while fully clothed and looking away. i had to beg her to kiss me on the neck last week. i hope she doesn't find this thread, she's very computer savvy. i need the support though. i'm with you, CeMar, if 'gifting' included BJs i would be about as happy as any man in the universe. am i alone in that all i can manage to fantasize about is my fiance? she IS that french restaurant! you are totally right! i pray our goals and working together are successful. i love her so much and want to have a family some day. even more than that, though, i dream of her being HD one day and tearing my clothes off every chance she gets. thanks for your great posts everyone. hope this isnt' off topic.
Quote: As for what could be, why do you believe that a person could be happy in a relationship where they can never feel desired? If that was possible, then I would truly be happy right now.
I'm not saying that is what I believe. I believe that you need to find a happy medium. What have you been doing to 'fix' your M in the last few years? So far, it hasn't worked. You can't expect your W to become HD and she can't expect you to become LD. You have to find something that is going to work for YOUR M. You both need to bring to the table, measures that you think may help get your R back on track. No shooting each other's ideas down in flames, just constructive discussion. If she's not willing to do this, then maybe you will have to live without being desired or get out of your M. You always have a choice. Sometimes they're all not ideal, but what can you do?
I really do hope things work out for you CeMar.
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Re: maybetime: Have you ever been married before? You're 28, but I see a lot of what I would call "magical thinking" in your post, e.g., "i dream of her being HD one day and tearing my clothes off every chance she gets." It ain't gonna happen, dude. The thing is, she may, indeed, love you, but she can't give you something she doesn't have. And you may love her, but as long as you are begging her for kisses on the neck, HJ's where she is looking away, and a continuing diminishing frequency in your 5 minute sex acts, your love for her won't be enough to sustain you through a lifetime together.
I know...it sucks.
I speak from experience, though, so you might want to start thinking about your next move. My W loves me, and I love her. We had fairly frequent sex early in the relationship, but it diminished in frequency pretty quickly. Oral, both giving and receiving, is off limits. I can't touch her breasts or anywhere close to her genitals, unless we're about ready to make love.
And, maybetime, we make love from 2 to 5 times per year. Yes, you read that correctly, per year.
This is your life, my friend, unless you sober up, quit the magical thinking, and figure out what is important to you. And let me tell you that if sex and touching and kissing is important to you now, it will not cease to become important merely because she is the gatekeeper and she is setting your agenda for you. It is the feast that is spread before the starving man. When she feeds you, it will not be from the scrumptious dishes you see before you each day and hunger for. It will be a cracker or a bit of crust she throws your way to keep you happy. . . well, not "happy," but it will keep you there, by her side.
Does she want children? If so, that is what you are, my friend...a sperm donor. And once the kid or kids come, it will be that much more difficult to move on with your life.
I could say more, but I think you get the idea.
You may identify with CeMar, but you do not want to grow up and be him. Or me.
Hairdog, you should post what you posted to Scott (another person considering marrying in this situation) some months back. It said what you are saying here so powerfully that I had to read it many, many times.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
Quote: Still, if I were me, giving advice to myself back in 1999, I would say this:
1. You are in a good position. You can stay with her as easily as you can cut and run. Your position will change with each commitment. And by "position" I mean this in terms of bargaining, or leverage. Each time you change your relationship, your position will weaken. It will become harder and harder for you to assert yourself. Each financial obligation you enter together. A marriage will greatly change your position. The most significant change to your position, however, is having children with her.
2. You are unhappy with your sexual relationship. It will not get better unless you assert yourself.
3. Asserting yourself does not mean yelling or stomping your feet. It means stating what you want, setting boundaries for what you will and will not accept, and having specific consequences to violations of those boundaries. This is where your “position” comes into play, because the only consequence that means anything to your “fiancee” is you leaving the relationship.
4. Assert yourself by saying, “I am unhappy with the state of our sexual relationship. I would like to see X, Y, and Z happen.” Boundary: “I will not stay in this relationship unless I feel comfortable with the part of it which is sexual. I don’t currently feel that way.” Consequence: “I am out of here.”
And here’s the real trick of it all: you have to mean it. You have to follow through if she doesn’t step up to the plate. Because, if you don’t, you’ll never be in the “position” you’re in right now, again. EVER.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I’m just trying to share my life’s lesson with you. If this woman loves you, she will do her best to understand and meet your VERY VALID requests. I went along and avoided conflict and ignored all the red flags for way too long. It has improved, lately, and by that I mean that she actually touches me from time to time, and even lets me kiss her each day, as long as I don’t use my icky tongue. Yes, this is an improvement.
No, on second thought, just get the heck out of there.
which has not happened in a long time. 